Lighting

Question:

The orange slip tubes are merely the paper cover used to protect the tube upon handling – really easy to spot on the rack. I know nothing of the technical specs., what got my attention was the thread here about folks seeing lots of red in the leaves of plants growing under them. That usually indicates greater intensity, but in this case may be more related to the spectral output. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!

Response:

I would say by all means, take care of them as best you can, but you must also have a bit of a cavalier attitude about it, too. My mother in law says that she will give any plant a chance, but if it doesn’t want to behave , well it can just get the hell out. Its REAL easy to obsess with orchids. I remember one year I traipsed out every night to spray my cyms, trying to get their night time temperature low enough to bloom. Didn’t even work and made me nuts. Be careful . . .

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – STOP!! NOW!! Be like all your friends with "black thumbs" and immediately cease watering these orchids of yours, place them in the dimmest corners of your house, and toss them in the trash as they expire. Then, run as fast as you can in the direction of less frustrating hobbies such as contract bridge, needlepoint, RC airplanes, or miniature railroading! Once obtained, all members of the orchid family emit invisible electromagnetic waves, as yet uncharacterized by physicists, that cause you to bend to their every whim, squandering your disposable income on their desires for the latest fertilizer, the most expensive plant lights, the most unobtainable of potting mediums. Some have even postulated them to be a family of alien organisms that have parasitized the supposedly intelligent humans on this planet! When at night you should be soundly asleep, you’ll be tossing in bed, wondering which pathogen it was this time that just did in your most prized plant. You’ll spend amounts approaching the value of your collection, testing and re-testing for viruses and fungi. If your tolerance for emotional pain is high enough, you’ll endure these tribulations for a few years, until you think you’ve "got these orchids figured out". Then, overnight, any of several calamities will befall you; a new pathogen wipes them all out, the once-every-100 years unseasonably early frost catches you unaware, your greenhouse temperature control fails on the hottest day of the year when you’re out of town and the next-door teenager is "watching" them for you, etc. Oh, woe is you! Listen to the voices of the damned and take heed! Or, find where the local chapter of the American Orchid Society meets and find some new friends. Orchid people are the nicest people around, I always say. Have fun, and don’t say later that no one warned you! Your in addiction, C. Hello orchid lovers, I found this ng about three weeks ago and have been lurking on and off. So far I must say everyone has been very helpful when questions are asked. I recently caught this unexplainable disease that has prompted me to purchase a few orchids. Now that I have them I am realizing I must take good care of them, especially since winter is approaching in the Chicago area. Since I live in a hole with very little natural light I’ve decided to build an orchidarium and utilize fluorescent lights. This is where my question(s) are most prevalent at the moment. I’ve never grown plants under lights and have looked at several links that sell different lighting products. Currently I am looking through a Grainger catalogue. BTW, they are having a lighting sale through the end of October. I’m certain many of you have heard this before so please forgive me for asking. I’ll begin with these. Are grow lights absolutely necessary? Should I not be able to accomplish the same with proper spectrum bulbs? Are temperature and luminescence equally important? Are "sunlight" or "daylight" fluorescent bublbs the best choice? I’ve noticed the temperature as well as the luminescence varies greatly with these. If I can get a handle on this incurable disease I can at least learn to live with it. I’m certain any input will be of some help and comfort. Lou

Response:

This is a great site for a simple but very effect light stand …. YOU got to take a look http://home.earthlink.net/~tcbunn/index.html good lcuk

Response:

Pam, If you were always careful life wouldn’t be any fun, would it? Cavalier … yep, love ‘em and leave ‘em, especially if they don’t perform. <g Hmmmm, this is beginning to sound less like plants and more like human behavior. If you had purchased air conditioning and talked to them reeeeal nice they may have bloomed. I guess I’m asking for it aren’t I? I’m currently looking at some controls for their little house that I haven’t yet built. I hope the weather holds out just a wee bit longer. Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would say by all means, take care of them as best you can, but you must also have a bit of a cavalier attitude about it, too. My mother in law says that she will give any plant a chance, but if it doesn’t want to behave , well it can just get the hell out. Its REAL easy to obsess with orchids. I remember one year I traipsed out every night to spray my cyms, trying to get their night time temperature low enough to bloom. Didn’t even work and made me nuts. Be careful . . .

Response:

Ray, Don’t you just love the smell of freshly fried calamari in the morning? I have considered both incandescent and fluorescent together since it seems a good way to get more of the spectrum. Orange slip tubes? What are the specs on the GE bulbs you are now using? Temp… lumens… wattage? Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lou, I refuse to discuss calamari this early in the morning, but back in the days when my entire collection was under lights, I used 50/50 wattage-wise incandescent and daylight fluorescent bulbs with great success. Now I do have some flasks and recently compotted plants under the GE "Sunlight" fluorescent bulbs (they’re in orange slip-tubes), and they’re doing great. They are about $4-$5 versus $1-$2 for "cool white," but I felt the improved spectrum worth a try, and I’m quite pleased. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!

Response:

Monsieur Hicks, Merci beaucoups for the information. I will check out the site you have suggested. I do own deux vandas, but no squid. I will just have to keep them at work where the southwestern light is plentiful. Lou

Response:

Lou, I refuse to discuss calamari this early in the morning, but back in the days when my entire collection was under lights, I used 50/50 wattage-wise incandescent and daylight fluorescent bulbs with great success. Now I do have some flasks and recently compotted plants under the GE "Sunlight" fluorescent bulbs (they’re in orange slip-tubes), and they’re doing great. They are about $4-$5 versus $1-$2 for "cool white," but I felt the improved spectrum worth a try, and I’m quite pleased. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!

Response:

Lou spake thusly: Are grow lights absolutely necessary?

No. Unless you want to throw money at random to light-bulb manufacturers. Should I not be able to accomplish the same with proper spectrum bulbs?

Yes. And sometimes without. Are temperature and luminescence equally important? Are "sunlight" or "daylight" fluorescent bublbs the best choice?

You may wish to read this: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/4742/lighting.html This will explain it better, and to a depth of which even giant squid cannot dive. I’ve noticed the temperature as well as the luminescence varies greatly with these.

You have no idea. Part of this is that you have two camps. "Good enough is good enough" and those that believe "it ain’t good enough, let’s bring out the heavy guns." Here’s a synopsis. Good enough is good enough: Light destroys chlorophyll, which is what you want to do. You can spend $10,000 on *perfect* light that matches sunlight, and the plants won’t give a damn because the chlorophyll ain’t gonna absorb it anyway. If it doesn’t absorb it, it won’t destroy it- and that’s why we’re all here: chlorophyll destruction. It ain’t good enough: If you’re going to do it, do it right. Invest in a few lights that work a little better, and ye shall achieve Nirvana (or at least another, better grunge band). High-pressure sodium and other lights give you better intensity, and just TRY to raise vandas inside without intensity. They’ll also heat your house in the winter. And the summer, come to think of it. Of course, it’s difficult to discern which camp I’m with *koff* *koff* *becheap* *koff* *koff* -AJHicks The Orchid Seedbank Chandler, AZ

Response:

I hate to tell you, but this *disease* is incurable! Oh, you can treat the symptoms by regular purchases of new plants which take the edge off. But, nothing more is known on how to treat it. I highly suggest that you just accept you have the *disease*, and do the best you can to live with it. Oh! And be sure you post often, letting us all know how you are doing. It’s seems to help being around others with the same affliction. :o) Cindy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello orchid lovers, I found this ng about three weeks ago and have been lurking on and off. So far I must say everyone has been very helpful when questions are asked. I recently caught this unexplainable disease that has prompted me to purchase a few orchids. Now that I have them I am realizing I must take good care of them, especially since winter is approaching in the Chicago area. Since I live in a hole with very little natural light I’ve decided to build an orchidarium and utilize fluorescent lights. This is where my question(s) are most prevalent at the moment. I’ve never grown plants under lights and have looked at several links that sell different lighting products. Currently I am looking through a Grainger catalogue. BTW, they are having a lighting sale through the end of October. I’m certain many of you have heard this before so please forgive me for asking. I’ll begin with these. Are grow lights absolutely necessary? Should I not be able to accomplish the same with proper spectrum bulbs? Are temperature and luminescence equally important? Are "sunlight" or "daylight" fluorescent bublbs the best choice? I’ve noticed the temperature as well as the luminescence varies greatly with these. If I can get a handle on this incurable disease I can at least learn to live with it. I’m certain any input will be of some help and comfort. Lou

Response:

…and yet another person whom my ex has touched in a manner in which only she can do. <g I can appreciate your sense of humor. I too have learned to expect the worst and rejoice in the little things that "do" work. Those little successes make most of it well worth the effort. Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – STOP!! NOW!! snip < Oh, woe is you! Listen to the voices of the damned and take heed! Or, find where the local chapter of the American Orchid Society meets and find some new friends. Orchid people are the nicest people around, I always say. Have fun, and don’t say later that no one warned you! Your in addiction, C.

Response:

Rick, Unfortunately I do not have a space where I can utilize that type of lighting. I have to concentrate my efforts on fluorescent bulbs and will probably contact manufacturers directly with my questions. I have tried to ask some growers about this and all they tell me is to get grow lights. I’m beginning to wonder if that’s not just a bunch of hype. I guess I’ll find out sooner or later. Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lou, I have also become an addict recently! Here is a link to one of the places I have been visiting with my credit card. My basement has taken the shape of an indoor gh with a misting system/fans/heater/benches/and a large 800watt light fixture. http://www.igcusa.com/ has a lot of items to check out. My fixture is a dual lamp sun system VII (metal halide and high pressure sodium. it puts out the blue and red rays that plants like. Hope you enjoy your new addiction. Rick~ Hello orchid lovers, I found this ng about three weeks ago and have been lurking on and off. So far I must say everyone has been very helpful when questions are asked. I recently caught this unexplainable disease that has prompted me to purchase a few orchids. Now that I have them I am realizing I must take good care of them, especially since winter is approaching in the Chicago area. Since I live in a hole with very little natural light I’ve decided to build an orchidarium and utilize fluorescent lights. This is where my question(s) are most prevalent at the moment. I’ve never grown plants under lights and have looked at several links that sell different lighting products. Currently I am looking through a Grainger catalogue. BTW, they are having a lighting sale through the end of October. I’m certain many of you have heard this before so please forgive me for asking. I’ll begin with these. Are grow lights absolutely necessary? Should I not be able to accomplish the same with proper spectrum bulbs? Are temperature and luminescence equally important? Are "sunlight" or "daylight" fluorescent bublbs the best choice? I’ve noticed the temperature as well as the luminescence varies greatly with these. If I can get a handle on this incurable disease I can at least learn to live with it. I’m certain any input will be of some help and comfort. Lou

Response:

Lou, I have also become an addict recently! Here is a link to one of the places I have been visiting with my credit card. My basement has taken the shape of an indoor gh with a misting system/fans/heater/benches/and a large 800watt light fixture. http://www.igcusa.com/ has a lot of items to check out. My fixture is a dual lamp sun system VII (metal halide and high pressure sodium. it puts out the blue and red rays that plants like. Hope you enjoy your new addiction. Rick~

Response:

STOP!! NOW!! Be like all your friends with "black thumbs" and immediately cease watering these orchids of yours, place them in the dimmest corners of your house, and toss them in the trash as they expire. Then, run as fast as you can in the direction of less frustrating hobbies such as contract bridge, needlepoint, RC airplanes, or miniature railroading! Once obtained, all members of the orchid family emit invisible electromagnetic waves, as yet uncharacterized by physicists, that cause you to bend to their every whim, squandering your disposable income on their desires for the latest fertilizer, the most expensive plant lights, the most unobtainable of potting mediums. Some have even postulated them to be a family of alien organisms that have parasitized the supposedly intelligent humans on this planet! When at night you should be soundly asleep, you’ll be tossing in bed, wondering which pathogen it was this time that just did in your most prized plant. You’ll spend amounts approaching the value of your collection, testing and re-testing for viruses and fungi. If your tolerance for emotional pain is high enough, you’ll endure these tribulations for a few years, until you think you’ve "got these orchids figured out". Then, overnight, any of several calamities will befall you; a new pathogen wipes them all out, the once-every-100 years unseasonably early frost catches you unaware, your greenhouse temperature control fails on the hottest day of the year when you’re out of town and the next-door teenager is "watching" them for you, etc. Oh, woe is you! Listen to the voices of the damned and take heed! Or, find where the local chapter of the American Orchid Society meets and find some new friends. Orchid people are the nicest people around, I always say. Have fun, and don’t say later that no one warned you! Your in addiction, C.

Response:

Hello orchid lovers, I found this ng about three weeks ago and have been lurking on and off. So far I must say everyone has been very helpful when questions are asked. I recently caught this unexplainable disease that has prompted me to purchase a few orchids. Now that I have them I am realizing I must take good care of them, especially since winter is approaching in the Chicago area. Since I live in a hole with very little natural light I’ve decided to build an orchidarium and utilize fluorescent lights. This is where my question(s) are most prevalent at the moment. I’ve never grown plants under lights and have looked at several links that sell different lighting products. Currently I am looking through a Grainger catalogue. BTW, they are having a lighting sale through the end of October. I’m certain many of you have heard this before so please forgive me for asking. I’ll begin with these. Are grow lights absolutely necessary? Should I not be able to accomplish the same with proper spectrum bulbs? Are temperature and luminescence equally important? Are "sunlight" or "daylight" fluorescent bublbs the best choice? I’ve noticed the temperature as well as the luminescence varies greatly with these. If I can get a handle on this incurable disease I can at least learn to live with it. I’m certain any input will be of some help and comfort. Lou

Response:

Hello everyone. I am new to orchids and I need some advice. I have a Cymbidium(Ivy Fung?), Dendrobium, ncidium and a Phalaenopsis. I have them on a baker’s rack in a south-facing window. Do they need more light, and if so, what brand of flourescent plant light should I buy and how far should it hang from the top shelf? On the top shelf is the Cym. and Dedrob. On the second shelf is the Phal. and Onc. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Dan

Response:

: Hello everyone. I am new to orchids and I need some advice. : I have a Cymbidium(Ivy Fung?), Dendrobium, ncidium and a Phalaenopsis. : I have them on a baker’s rack in a south-facing window. Do they need : more light, and if so, what brand of flourescent plant light should I : buy and how far should it hang from the top shelf? On the top shelf is : the Cym. and Dedrob. On the second shelf is the Phal. and Onc. : Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Dan : : : :

Response:

Hey Dan, I grow orchids under lights and have had varying degree of sucess with it. I grow Phalaenopsis under two flourescent tubes placed about 4 inches above the plant. Usually four tubes are recommeded though. I have some orchids on a south facing window sill also. The window is partially obstructed, so direct sun only shines from 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. I supplement the light for the plants grown here with two flourescent tubes turned on for 12 hours every day. My Cymbidiums are grown in a windowless room under a High Intesity Discharge (HID) grow light. They are the most light demanding of all the orchids you have listed. These plants need full sun and cool temperatures to thrive. The HID lamp seems to replace the sun quite well. In the summer time, my Cymbidiums are grown in my backyard under semi-shade. What ever you do, I would grow your oncidium next to your dendrobium. It needs more light than the phalaenopsis. Good Luck! Andrew (Washington D.C.)

Response:

Wally, Try our web site as we built two shelves inexpensively and have had great results: http://www.users.cloud9.net/~epeople/orchid/orchid.shtml Good Luck! Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (since I did not get an answer earlier, I will repost my question… any help would be most appreciated) I have a small area in the basement that I will use to ‘grow out’ some orchids (or have previously bloomed). These will be mostly young plants (mostly Paphs, Phrags). I am currently using two shop lights, one for each shelf of a wooden stand that’s about 4 ft by 3 ft. I may expand to another shelf in the future. Can anyone recommend a lighting system that would be fairly inexpensive yet efficient for this? Should I look at HID lighting? Does anyone suggest a vendor (online or otherwise). Thanks, Wally

Response:

Wally, We had the same problem and detailed what we did in our basement here: http://www.users.cloud9.net/~epeople/orchid/orchid.shtml It tells of what shelfs we built (and it was easy) and what lights, water we used. We discuss humidity etc. Good luck and I hope it helps! Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (since I did not get an answer earlier, I will repost my question… any help would be most appreciated) I have a small area in the basement that I will use to ‘grow out’ some orchids (or have previously bloomed). These will be mostly young plants (mostly Paphs, Phrags). I am currently using two shop lights, one for each shelf of a wooden stand that’s about 4 ft by 3 ft. I may expand to another shelf in the future. Can anyone recommend a lighting system that would be fairly inexpensive yet efficient for this? Should I look at HID lighting? Does anyone suggest a vendor (online or otherwise). Thanks, Wally

Response:

I have recently added plant shelves in my basement for recent repots and for some flasks I’ve got coming soon, and have used 40 watt GE Sunlight fluorescent bulbs in the fixtures. I’m sure the flasks will be fine, but what surprises me is the good growth out of the Oncidium Sharry baby’s! — Ray Barkalow –<– First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (since I did not get an answer earlier, I will repost my question… any help would be most appreciated) I have a small area in the basement that I will use to ‘grow out’ some orchids (or have previously bloomed). These will be mostly young plants (mostly Paphs, Phrags). I am currently using two shop lights, one for each shelf of a wooden stand that’s about 4 ft by 3 ft. I may expand to another shelf in the future. Can anyone recommend a lighting system that would be fairly inexpensive yet efficient for this? Should I look at HID lighting? Does anyone suggest a vendor (online or otherwise). Thanks, Wally

Response:

Sorry you didn’t get an answer earlier, happens some times. How large an area do you have or can you give for your orchids? I personally do not like a shelved system for numerous reasons. They are fine for seedlings of uniform size and somewhat similar requirements. Once plants start spiking with various length inflorescences or you have a mixed collection that includes some high light orchids, they can be a nuisance. These are my opinions only, I am sure many will say how great fluorescent are. Different strokes. I prefer HID lights with a single level bench area. Much much easier to work with. My latest area has benches around a walled area in the shape of a box C and a rolling bench in the opening of the C. I roll it one way or the other to create a single 24" walk in. Easy to get to all plants this way. I have a 2 ft. chicken wire upright the length of the rolling bench for mounted plants. All benches have water trays beneath with overflows built in. No low humidity problems. The area runs two 430W HPS lights. If I had it to do over, I would buy MH lights but the HPS lights cost less than $100 each from a greenhouse scaling back. I haven’t answered your question have I? Bad Dog!! Shop lights are fine as long as they have a good ballast, constantly replacing ballasts in cheap lights is no fun. Look for bulbs close to 5000K, natural daylight bulbs. Look for the ultralumes and use them if you can find them. They are a little more expensive but worth it. There are really no inexpensive HID lights unless you can find someone going out of business or no longer growing plants inside. They are much more efficient and one unit in the range of 400W will light a 6′ x 6′ area quite well. You should be able to grow almost anything under it, including those illegal plants like Scooby Dobie. Is that how you spell Dobie? Rambled enough, shut your yap already Stephen! Regards, Spartacus

Response:

(since I did not get an answer earlier, I will repost my question… any help would be most appreciated) I have a small area in the basement that I will use to ‘grow out’ some orchids (or have previously bloomed). These will be mostly young plants (mostly Paphs, Phrags). I am currently using two shop lights, one for each shelf of a wooden stand that’s about 4 ft by 3 ft. I may expand to another shelf in the future. Can anyone recommend a lighting system that would be fairly inexpensive yet efficient for this? Should I look at HID lighting? Does anyone suggest a vendor (online or otherwise). Thanks, Wally

Response:

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