Filed under: Growing Orchids
Question:
Tony, Home Depot carries a bulb for plants that runs about $7.00 each. I’ve used them and like them for low light plants(Plals. in particular). I think they are made by GE and they have an orange sleeve on them. Someone else on this site reccommended them some time ago. Bob
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – of wisdom: I would like to build a special enclosure for them most of the time like an acrylic box or something for them to grow in with a MH light or something. I know orchids need to be well ventilated so would a few fans in the sides work. If anyone has any info about anyone doing anything like this could you please share it with me. <snip BTW the reaason I need this enclosure is because of the low level of light in my house. There are trees all over my property and hardly any light gets in. Low (or even no) light shouldn’t really be a problem if you install good quality grow lights. I grow all my orchids in my basement under regular florescent fixtures (el cheapos from Home Depot) with very good quality daylight bulbs in them. Does the daylight bulb come with the florescent fixture or I have to buy them separately, if so what is the daylight bulb called, what’s its name etc…. I am novice and want to build a shelf with light for my orchids but don’t know what light I need, they all look the same to me in the light store 
. Thanks alot. They are suspended from the ceiling tiles in the normal fashion and create a very evenly bright light. My benches sit directly under them. I hang my few vandas directly from the fixture so they are just under the light. My paphs, phals and one or two other oddball orchids I keep around here sit up on the benches, directly underneath the bulbs but roughly 3-to-4 feet below them. All or most of my leafy tropicals and potted citrus trees sit clustered throughout the space and around the orchid benches on the floor, creating a nice little microclimate. All seem to enjoy the evenly bright light, which is on a cycle of 12 hours on/12 hours off, all winter long. In the summer, every plant in this place goes ***outside*** (because I need a break!) in various locations around my yard, according to the conditions each individual plant likes. This setup has worked really well for me for about 3 years that I’ve been growing orchids. ‘Course, I’m mostly growing the hardy guys that get by on lower light levels, so your mileage may vary. But I don’t think you have to go all out and get into serious debt or start building things right away just because you want to grow orchids. The right plant in the right place works wonderfully. Even my vandas (which people have warned me are miserably hard to grow) have grown well and even rewarded me with blooms by hanging them just inches from the ceiling fixture during winter and then putting them out in the yard for the summer. It’s probably not the optimal way to grow orchids, but it works…for me! Hope this helps… * * * * * Karen C. Southern CT / USDA Zone 6 Spammers be damned! I can’t be emailed from this account… "Gardeners know all the best dirt!"
Response:
We are Orchid. You will be assimilated. Your uniqueness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile. Hold still while I inject you with pollinia nanoprobes….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. My name is Patrick Kelly and I have been looking for a new hobby recently. I have been considering a few things and orchids are one of them. I would like to build a special enclosure for them most of the time like an acrylic box or something for them to grow in with a MH light or something. I know orchids need to be well ventilated so would a few fans in the sides work. If anyone has any info about anyone doing anything like this could you please share it with me. Thank you. BTW the reaason I need this enclosure is because of the low level of light in my house. There are trees all over my property and hardly any light gets in. Also has anyone ever tried using aeroponics to grow orchids. If you know of any good beginner sites out there please share. Thank you.
Response:
I hope you took note Patrick – YOU WERE WARNED. Orchids are not a gentle hobby. THEY ARE A FEVER, AN ADDICTION. Welcome, the gods need new blood. SuE – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. My name is Patrick Kelly and I have been looking for a new hobby recently. I have been considering a few things and orchids are one of them. I would like to build a special enclosure for them most of the time like an acrylic box or something for them to grow in with a MH light or something. I know orchids need to be well ventilated so would a few fans in the sides work. If anyone has any info about anyone doing anything like this could you please share it with me. Thank you. BTW the reaason I need this enclosure is because of the low level of light in my house. There are trees all over my property and hardly any light gets in. Also has anyone ever tried using aeroponics to grow orchids. If you know of any good beginner sites out there please share. Thank you.
Response:
I would like to build a special enclosure for them most of the time like an acrylic box or something for them to grow in with a MH light or something. I know orchids need to be well ventilated so would a few fans in the sides work. If anyone has any info about anyone doing anything like this could you please share it with me.
Anyone ever tried the Phototron for orchids?
Response:
We all tried to tell Patrick last week it is an ADICTION – and very infectious. Very easy to transmit to other unsuspecting parties. But aint it fun. SuE – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last fall, I took pity on a reject in the clearance isle at Lowes… went to book store and read quickly the requirements of an orchid… had an old 55 gallon fish takk stand that had groow lights mounted already… Trip to the local Walmart for a bag of pea gravel, filled plastic tray with gravel and water. and placed orchid on top… and waited…. Working on my THIRD stand this week with 2 shelves and lights on each. this will give me 6 sets of flourecent lights now, on 6 shelves… and 65 plants… its VICE…
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – of wisdom: I would like to build a special enclosure for them most of the time like an acrylic box or something for them to grow in with a MH light or something. I know orchids need to be well ventilated so would a few fans in the sides work. If anyone has any info about anyone doing anything like this could you please share it with me. <snip BTW the reaason I need this enclosure is because of the low level of light in my house. There are trees all over my property and hardly any light gets in. Low (or even no) light shouldn’t really be a problem if you install good quality grow lights. I grow all my orchids in my basement under regular florescent fixtures (el cheapos from Home Depot) with very good quality daylight bulbs in them.
Does the daylight bulb come with the florescent fixture or I have to buy them separately, if so what is the daylight bulb called, what’s its name etc…. I am novice and want to build a shelf with light for my orchids but don’t know what light I need, they all look the same to me in the light store . Thanks alot. They are suspended from the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ceiling tiles in the normal fashion and create a very evenly bright light. My benches sit directly under them. I hang my few vandas directly from the fixture so they are just under the light. My paphs, phals and one or two other oddball orchids I keep around here sit up on the benches, directly underneath the bulbs but roughly 3-to-4 feet below them. All or most of my leafy tropicals and potted citrus trees sit clustered throughout the space and around the orchid benches on the floor, creating a nice little microclimate. All seem to enjoy the evenly bright light, which is on a cycle of 12 hours on/12 hours off, all winter long. In the summer, every plant in this place goes ***outside*** (because I need a break!) in various locations around my yard, according to the conditions each individual plant likes. This setup has worked really well for me for about 3 years that I’ve been growing orchids. ‘Course, I’m mostly growing the hardy guys that get by on lower light levels, so your mileage may vary. But I don’t think you have to go all out and get into serious debt or start building things right away just because you want to grow orchids. The right plant in the right place works wonderfully. Even my vandas (which people have warned me are miserably hard to grow) have grown well and even rewarded me with blooms by hanging them just inches from the ceiling fixture during winter and then putting them out in the yard for the summer. It’s probably not the optimal way to grow orchids, but it works…for me! Hope this helps… * * * * * Karen C. Southern CT / USDA Zone 6 Spammers be damned! I can’t be emailed from this account… "Gardeners know all the best dirt!"
Response:
You said it right, Sue! I think I finally transmitted it to my next door neighbor today. She works for a florist, and I showed her a particular Den today; she said "I didn’t know Dendrobiums could look like that!" Heheheh. Got her! Diana
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We all tried to tell Patrick last week it is an ADICTION – and very infectious. Very easy to transmit to other unsuspecting parties. But aint it fun. SuE Last fall, I took pity on a reject in the clearance isle at Lowes… went to book store and read quickly the requirements of an orchid… had an old 55 gallon fish takk stand that had groow lights mounted already… Trip to the local Walmart for a bag of pea gravel, filled plastic tray with gravel and water. and placed orchid on top… and waited…. Working on my THIRD stand this week with 2 shelves and lights on each. this will give me 6 sets of flourecent lights now, on 6 shelves… and 65 plants… its VICE…
Response:
Hi. My name is Patrick Kelly and I have been looking for a new hobby recently. I have been considering a few things and orchids are one of them. I would like to build a special enclosure for them most of the time like an acrylic box or something for them to grow in with a MH light or something. I know orchids need to be well ventilated so would a few fans in the sides work. If anyone has any info about anyone doing anything like this could you please share it with me. Thank you. BTW the reaason I need this enclosure is because of the low level of light in my house. There are trees all over my property and hardly any light gets in. Also has anyone ever tried using aeroponics to grow orchids. If you know of any good beginner sites out there please share. Thank you.
Response:
Patrick, DON’T DO IT!! It will be a monkey on your back forever! OK, now that the obligatory Surgeon General’s warning is out of the way…. Welcome to the group, and to the hobby. If you have the guts to learn, learn, and learn more – for the rest of your life, that is – you’ll thoroughly enjoy orchids. If you’re squeamish about killing plants, stay away. Lesson 1: READ BEFORE YOU BUY. Lots of sites (including mine) have lots of good basic culture info, which should lead you to hours of google searches and the library or book store. Lesson 2: BUY SOMETHING SUITED TO YOUR GROWING CONDITIONS. Most newbies buy something they like the looks of and then come crying when they can’t grow it. If you really analyze your conditions and compare the data with what the plants need, buying only those that match up well, you’ll be a lot better off. Lesson 3: ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS HERE, AND RESEARCH THE ARCHIVES VIA GOOGLE Those of us that frequent this group want to help, and most want to keep learning, too. Lesson 4: INVEST IN PLASTICS MANUFACTURERS If you really need to build tight enclosures, I can pretty much guarantee that you’ll need that "owner’s discount" to buy more and more and more….. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. My name is Patrick Kelly and I have been looking for a new hobby recently. I have been considering a few things and orchids are one of them. I would like to build a special enclosure for them most of the time like an acrylic box or something for them to grow in with a MH light or something. I know orchids need to be well ventilated so would a few fans in the sides work. If anyone has any info about anyone doing anything like this could you please share it with me. Thank you. BTW the reaason I need this enclosure is because of the low level of light in my house. There are trees all over my property and hardly any light gets in. Also has anyone ever tried using aeroponics to grow orchids. If you know of any good beginner sites out there please share. Thank you.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. My name is Patrick Kelly and I have been looking for a new hobby recently. I have been considering a few things and orchids are one of them. I would like to build a special enclosure for them most of the time like an acrylic box or something for them to grow in with a MH light or something. I know orchids need to be well ventilated so would a few fans in the sides work. If anyone has any info about anyone doing anything like this could you please share it with me. Thank you. BTW the reaason I need this enclosure is because of the low level of light in my house. There are trees all over my property and hardly any light gets in. Also has anyone ever tried using aeroponics to grow orchids. If you know of any good beginner sites out there please share. Thank you.
I’m truly sorry that you are in need of this news group.;-) You still have a chance of escape if you do it now.<g Seriously – what better addiction could one have… Good luck! Kathy K.
Response:
Run, Patrick, run! Get out now, before the orchid Gods have you in their clutches! Don’t look back, as you may turn to a pillar of dyna grow as you try to leave! In your sleep, dendrobiums and catts and encyclias and bulbophilums and other strangely named beings will wind into your hair and invade your dreams! LOL Diana
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Question:
Long Snip to save bandwidth Thank you for a very informative article on paph growing condtions. — Gideon Singer In Beautiful Vancouver BC Web site: members.shaw.ca/gsinger
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you hit the nail on the head Jerry thank you Rick
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think you’re mixing up paphs and phrags – most phrags (except cadatum and it’s hybrids) DO like to sit in water during the summer months. Wouldn’t suggest it w/ paphs. i understand the concept of the pebbles and more humidity but i would swear that i have read somewhere about setting the entire pot in a tray of water about 1/2" deep. I’ll look again for the article. Rick message The idea is to set them on a tray full of wet pebbles (to increase surface area) in order to enhance the local humidity. The plant’s pot should not come in contact with the wet pebbles or the water. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! would you then suggest not having these plants sitting in trays of water during growth periods and just keeping an eye on them and keeping them watered? Rick in message
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Without knowing the details of the setup, I’d be concerned that the plant may have been sitting right in the water, keeping it too wet. In S/H culture, where there’s lots of air flow to the roots, they adapt just fine, but in most other media, that is not the case. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Ray, what am I missing here? Isn’t this one of those green things that like to be sitting in a tray of water during it’s growth season? I read this and become leery of leaving my roths. and Victoria rageanes in trays. Also the same in semi hydro (similar to) seem to be lovin it! — Stress not over the little things; and the large ones will disappear! Rick~ wrote in message Dip the base in a rooting hormone, place it in a damp but airy medium in a plastic bag to keep the humidity high and pray. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! message Hi All, We have a paph which has had the potting medium soaking wet for a while now. Please don’t ask how it got that way!!! 
(( The root has rotted completely, but there is still lots of greenery up top. Is it possible to save this plant? All help would be appreciated. Please post answers to RGO, as my return address is fake to prevent spam. Thanks, Delphinus
Response:
Ray/Rick That is what happened to our paph. The medium was moss and it just soaked up too much water. The roots just rotted. I’m happy to see that I started a thread that may prevent someone else from making the same mistake. Small consolation though. Delphinus – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rick, That depends on the medium and the plant. If you’re talking an inert medium such as clay spheres, then the water can wick up into the medium, but it stays airy and won’t decompose. If you’re using a more traditional, organic medium, it can decompose, or become so soppy that the roots die. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! i understand the concept of the pebbles and more humidity but i would swear that i have read somewhere about setting the entire pot in a tray of water about 1/2" deep. I’ll look again for the article. Rick message The idea is to set them on a tray full of wet pebbles (to increase surface area) in order to enhance the local humidity. The plant’s pot should not come in contact with the wet pebbles or the water. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! would you then suggest not having these plants sitting in trays of water during growth periods and just keeping an eye on them and keeping them watered? Rick message Without knowing the details of the setup, I’d be concerned that the plant may have been sitting right in the water, keeping it too wet. In S/H culture, where there’s lots of air flow to the roots, they adapt just fine, but in most other media, that is not the case. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Ray, what am I missing here? Isn’t this one of those green things that like to be sitting in a tray of water during it’s growth season? I read this and become leery of leaving my roths. and Victoria rageanes in trays. Also the same in semi hydro (similar to) seem to be lovin it! — Stress not over the little things; and the large ones will disappear! Rick~ in message Dip the base in a rooting hormone, place it in a damp but airy medium in a plastic bag to keep the humidity high and pray. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! message Hi All, We have a paph which has had the potting medium soaking wet for a while now. Please don’t ask how it got that way!!! (( The root has rotted completely, but there is still lots of greenery up top. Is it possible to save this plant? All help would be appreciated. Please post answers to RGO, as my return address is fake to prevent spam. Thanks, Delphinus
Response:
I love Paphs but always had trouble with them until a couple of years ago, when I drastically changed my way of growing them. I’m a postgraduate science student and I decided to read a few scientific papers about soil and atmospheric conditions around India, South East Asia and Borneo. This is going to be a bit long-winded but I hope you like it. Most people overwater Paphs because they don’t understand how they grow in the wild. Paphs generally grow in very shallow soil or humus pockets where there is a a maximum of 1-2 inch layer of humus/leaf litter, but generally a lot less than this. Below this litter there is the ground rock and, as a result, the whole place has very good drainage. The humus is NOT soil and looks a lot more like half decomposed old plant debries, with lots of dry leaves and sometimes a bit of moss here and there. This stuff is full of air pockets and dries quite fast under tropical conditions, even during the rainy season when it rains for hours (generally in the late afternoon) as this is also the hot season and the compost will be barely moist the following day. The heat in the morning and noon dries the soil and creates a very humid atmosphere around the leaves while decreasing the humidity around the roots. Many Paphs need extremely good drainage, specially those sections containing lithophytes (as opposed to tropical woodland terrestrials) that grow on rocky hills and mountain slopes, where there is only a little humus in pockets among the rock faces of the hills/mountain slopes, hardly any large vegetation covering them (trees and such) and, as a result, good air movement that keeps the atmospheric humidity relatively low. To these species belong bellatulum and company as well as rothschildianum and company and they will rot in a question of a few days if the compost they grow in becomes stagnant. This is also the result of acidity (stagnant organic media become acidic very soon) as these species tend to come from limestone country or grow in ultramafic soil and as a result their roots can’t cope with the coupling of wet feet and the excesive acidity produced by bacteria decomposing the wet and dead organic matter (bark chips and Paph roots!!!). The fact that most Paphs are terrestrial misleads people into thinking that a good terrestrial mix for orchids is the best growing medium for them. WRONG!!! (at least in my humble opinion, that is). These media retain too much moisture and become sour (acidic) in no time once they start to break down. However, they can be used sucessfully if you are prepared to repot your Paphs every so often. Paphs actually like to be repotted and you’ll find that they will produce lots of new roots shortly after being repotted. If you prefer to repot only once a year or every two years then I recommend bark as a growing medium for Paphs. I have found that they don’t like to grow in a medium consisting only of inorganic material. I grow all of my Paphs in standard pots, which I fill to half of their hight with large gravel (nearly 1 inch in diameter, limestone is ideal for certain species, as already mentioned, but any type of stone will do) to provide good drainage and large air pockets. Then I put the Paph inside and fill around the roots with large grade bark pieces for all the medium to large species and medium grade bark for the small species. I do not compact the bark and leave large air pockets in this layer as well. The small species related to bellatulum (section brachipetalum, I think) also get a top dressing of medium gravel to keep the surface of the compost dry and help water to drain away from the crowns of the plants. Small Chinese species (micranthum and company) don’t need this extra protection. I don’t encourage moss on top of bark anymore as I’ve found that it accelerates the decomposition of the compost and makes it sour after only a few months (at least under my conditions). Strangely enough the roots of many orchids will grow happily in the moss but die once they penetrate in to the bark layer below after it has gone slightly sour. Several of the Paphs are potted in the way I described but with clear plastic pots instead of normal plastic pots and I water all the Paphs when I see that the lower part of the bark layer is nearly dry in those pots. This might take 4-6 days in summer (I live in Scotland and the max-min temperatures are 18-28 degrees C at that time) and every 10-12 days in winter (13-20 degrees C). Indian species such as Paph insigne an its relatives stay in a slightly cooler place and get watered every 15-17 days (10-17 degrees C). They are in a very bright place where they get about 2-3 hours of dappled sunshine in the late afternoon (which we only get in summer in this part of the world). All Paphs get repotted once a year at the end of May unless they are in bloom. The bark mix decomposes rapidly after one year and Paphs seem to hate mushy bark even if you keep it reasonably dry.. The surprise of my life has been the discovery of growing orchids in pure sphagnum moss. All my seedlings are now weened in the stuff when they come out of their flasks and those few plants that start to rot or I want to propagate are potted in it as well. Sphagnum has antibacterial properties and, even though it is acidic, it does not harm the roots of lime-loving plants. The harm is generally the effect of microbes that like acidic conditions and against which lime-loving plants have no defences, but these microbes can’t survive in living or fresh sphagnum (beware of old, dead, compacted sphagnum as it will decompose and harbour bacteria). I have several Paph seedlings growing in pure sphagnum and they love it. They have much better root systems than seedlings in bark mixes and, to my surprise, these are all seedlings of limestone lovers. The most surpising is Paph sanderianum, which grows like mad, as well as Paph St. Swithin, which always tended to rot before I started to treat my Paphs as "cactae that like a humid atmosphere". And that’s enough of my ramblings. Happy Growing Tony
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ray/Rick That is what happened to our paph. The medium was moss and it just soaked up too much water. The roots just rotted. I’m happy to see that I started a thread that may prevent someone else from making the same mistake. Small consolation though. Delphinus Rick, That depends on the medium and the plant. If you’re talking an inert medium such as clay spheres, then the water can wick up into the medium, but it stays airy and won’t decompose. If you’re using a more traditional, organic medium, it can decompose, or become so soppy that the roots die. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!
Response:
For those of us with GH humidity, this is quite a trick. I like the gutter guard support. Thanks. SuE – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had this problem a while ago with my Paph. insigne. Many of you probably remember my ong winded worries over that occaision. Wel I treated it with fungicide as suggested, did up a pot of beautiful fresh bark, placed an inch of sphagnum moss over the top of the bark and stood the plant on top of the moss in the most humid portion of my bush-house available. OH…. The plant was held in place by a cylinder of plastic mesh called "gutter gaurd" inserted into the media 1" deep around the edge of the pot, and which extended about 6 inches above the pot. Well after many many many months of waiting, the plant has finally sent out new roots, the gutter gaurd has been removed, and the plant has sent out three new growths. Hip Hip Hooray!!! So my recommendation would be to try such a solution and see how you go. Unless there is a better solution already posted… ( the group is not propogating perfectly for me so I am missing some threads here and there… ) Kye.
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I had this problem a while ago with my Paph. insigne. Many of you probably remember my ong winded worries over that occaision. Wel I treated it with fungicide as suggested, did up a pot of beautiful fresh bark, placed an inch of sphagnum moss over the top of the bark and stood the plant on top of the moss in the most humid portion of my bush-house available. OH…. The plant was held in place by a cylinder of plastic mesh called "gutter gaurd" inserted into the media 1" deep around the edge of the pot, and which extended about 6 inches above the pot. Well after many many many months of waiting, the plant has finally sent out new roots, the gutter gaurd has been removed, and the plant has sent out three new growths. Hip Hip Hooray!!! So my recommendation would be to try such a solution and see how you go. Unless there is a better solution already posted… ( the group is not propogating perfectly for me so I am missing some threads here and there… ) Kye.
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I just found one of my paphs with questionable to no roots. It broke into several pieces when I unpotted it. There are four sections with lovely green leaves. Do I put them in water? Rooting hormone and the bag? Doesn’t sound like sphaghum would be good: I killed a lovely BLC that way. Can you recommend the appropriate course? With great thanks, Cherie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dip the base in a rooting hormone, place it in a damp but airy medium in a plastic bag to keep the humidity high and pray. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Hi All, We have a paph which has had the potting medium soaking wet for a while now. Please don’t ask how it got that way!!! (( The root has rotted completely, but there is still lots of greenery up top. Is it possible to save this plant? All help would be appreciated. Please post answers to RGO, as my return address is fake to prevent spam. Thanks, Delphinus
Response:
I think you’re mixing up paphs and phrags – most phrags (except cadatum and it’s hybrids) DO like to sit in water during the summer months. Wouldn’t suggest it w/ paphs.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i understand the concept of the pebbles and more humidity but i would swear that i have read somewhere about setting the entire pot in a tray of water about 1/2" deep. I’ll look again for the article. Rick message The idea is to set them on a tray full of wet pebbles (to increase surface area) in order to enhance the local humidity. The plant’s pot should not come in contact with the wet pebbles or the water. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! would you then suggest not having these plants sitting in trays of water during growth periods and just keeping an eye on them and keeping them watered? Rick message Without knowing the details of the setup, I’d be concerned that the plant may have been sitting right in the water, keeping it too wet. In S/H culture, where there’s lots of air flow to the roots, they adapt just fine, but in most other media, that is not the case. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Ray, what am I missing here? Isn’t this one of those green things that like to be sitting in a tray of water during it’s growth season? I read this and become leery of leaving my roths. and Victoria rageanes in trays. Also the same in semi hydro (similar to) seem to be lovin it! — Stress not over the little things; and the large ones will disappear! Rick~ in message Dip the base in a rooting hormone, place it in a damp but airy medium in a plastic bag to keep the humidity high and pray. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! message Hi All, We have a paph which has had the potting medium soaking wet for a while now. Please don’t ask how it got that way!!! (( The root has rotted completely, but there is still lots of greenery up top. Is it possible to save this plant? All help would be appreciated. Please post answers to RGO, as my return address is fake to prevent spam. Thanks, Delphinus
Response:
Hi All, We have a paph which has had the potting medium soaking wet for a while now. Please don’t ask how it got that way!!! (( The root has rotted completely, but there is still lots of greenery up top. Is it possible to save this plant? All help would be appreciated. Please post answers to RGO, as my return address is fake to prevent spam. Thanks, Delphinus
Response:
Dip the base in a rooting hormone, place it in a damp but airy medium in a plastic bag to keep the humidity high and pray. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, We have a paph which has had the potting medium soaking wet for a while now. Please don’t ask how it got that way!!! (( The root has rotted completely, but there is still lots of greenery up top. Is it possible to save this plant? All help would be appreciated. Please post answers to RGO, as my return address is fake to prevent spam. Thanks, Delphinus
Response:
Ray, Thanks for your advice. We will give it a try and hope for the best. Delphinus – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dip the base in a rooting hormone, place it in a damp but airy medium in a plastic bag to keep the humidity high and pray. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Hi All, We have a paph which has had the potting medium soaking wet for a while now. Please don’t ask how it got that way!!! (( The root has rotted completely, but there is still lots of greenery up top. Is it possible to save this plant? All help would be appreciated. Please post answers to RGO, as my return address is fake to prevent spam. Thanks, Delphinus
Response:
Ray, what am I missing here? Isn’t this one of those green things that like to be sitting in a tray of water during it’s growth season? I read this and become leery of leaving my roths. and Victoria rageanes in trays. Also the same in semi hydro (similar to) seem to be lovin it! — Stress not over the little things; and the large ones will disappear! Rick~ message – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dip the base in a rooting hormone, place it in a damp but airy medium in a plastic bag to keep the humidity high and pray. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Hi All, We have a paph which has had the potting medium soaking wet for a while now. Please don’t ask how it got that way!!! (( The root has rotted completely, but there is still lots of greenery up top. Is it possible to save this plant? All help would be appreciated. Please post answers to RGO, as my return address is fake to prevent spam. Thanks, Delphinus
Response:
Without knowing the details of the setup, I’d be concerned that the plant may have been sitting right in the water, keeping it too wet. In S/H culture, where there’s lots of air flow to the roots, they adapt just fine, but in most other media, that is not the case. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ray, what am I missing here? Isn’t this one of those green things that like to be sitting in a tray of water during it’s growth season? I read this and become leery of leaving my roths. and Victoria rageanes in trays. Also the same in semi hydro (similar to) seem to be lovin it! — Stress not over the little things; and the large ones will disappear! Rick~ message Dip the base in a rooting hormone, place it in a damp but airy medium in a plastic bag to keep the humidity high and pray. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Hi All, We have a paph which has had the potting medium soaking wet for a while now. Please don’t ask how it got that way!!! (( The root has rotted completely, but there is still lots of greenery up top. Is it possible to save this plant? All help would be appreciated. Please post answers to RGO, as my return address is fake to prevent spam. Thanks, Delphinus
Response:
would you then suggest not having these plants sitting in trays of water during growth periods and just keeping an eye on them and keeping them watered? Rick message – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Without knowing the details of the setup, I’d be concerned that the plant may have been sitting right in the water, keeping it too wet. In S/H culture, where there’s lots of air flow to the roots, they adapt just fine, but in most other media, that is not the case. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Ray, what am I missing here? Isn’t this one of those green things that like to be sitting in a tray of water during it’s growth season? I read this and become leery of leaving my roths. and Victoria rageanes in trays. Also the same in semi hydro (similar to) seem to be lovin it! — Stress not over the little things; and the large ones will disappear! Rick~ message Dip the base in a rooting hormone, place it in a damp but airy medium in a plastic bag to keep the humidity high and pray. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Hi All, We have a paph which has had the potting medium soaking wet for a while now. Please don’t ask how it got that way!!! (( The root has rotted completely, but there is still lots of greenery up top. Is it possible to save this plant? All help would be appreciated. Please post answers to RGO, as my return address is fake to prevent spam. Thanks, Delphinus
Response:
The idea is to set them on a tray full of wet pebbles (to increase surface area) in order to enhance the local humidity. The plant’s pot should not come in contact with the wet pebbles or the water. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – would you then suggest not having these plants sitting in trays of water during growth periods and just keeping an eye on them and keeping them watered? Rick message Without knowing the details of the setup, I’d be concerned that the plant may have been sitting right in the water, keeping it too wet. In S/H culture, where there’s lots of air flow to the roots, they adapt just fine, but in most other media, that is not the case. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Ray, what am I missing here? Isn’t this one of those green things that like to be sitting in a tray of water during it’s growth season? I read this and become leery of leaving my roths. and Victoria rageanes in trays. Also the same in semi hydro (similar to) seem to be lovin it! — Stress not over the little things; and the large ones will disappear! Rick~ message Dip the base in a rooting hormone, place it in a damp but airy medium in a plastic bag to keep the humidity high and pray. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Hi All, We have a paph which has had the potting medium soaking wet for a while now. Please don’t ask how it got that way!!! (( The root has rotted completely, but there is still lots of greenery up top. Is it possible to save this plant? All help would be appreciated. Please post answers to RGO, as my return address is fake to prevent spam. Thanks, Delphinus
Response:
i understand the concept of the pebbles and more humidity but i would swear that i have read somewhere about setting the entire pot in a tray of water about 1/2" deep. I’ll look again for the article. Rick message – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The idea is to set them on a tray full of wet pebbles (to increase surface area) in order to enhance the local humidity. The plant’s pot should not come in contact with the wet pebbles or the water. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! would you then suggest not having these plants sitting in trays of water during growth periods and just keeping an eye on them and keeping them watered? Rick message Without knowing the details of the setup, I’d be concerned that the plant may have been sitting right in the water, keeping it too wet. In S/H culture, where there’s lots of air flow to the roots, they adapt just fine, but in most other media, that is not the case. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Ray, what am I missing here? Isn’t this one of those green things that like to be sitting in a tray of water during it’s growth season? I read this and become leery of leaving my roths. and Victoria rageanes in trays. Also the same in semi hydro (similar to) seem to be lovin it! — Stress not over the little things; and the large ones will disappear! Rick~ in message
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dip the base in a rooting hormone, place it in a damp but airy medium in a plastic bag to keep the humidity high and pray. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! message Hi All, We have a paph which has had the potting medium soaking wet for a while now. Please don’t ask how it got that way!!! (( The root has rotted completely, but there is still lots of greenery up top. Is it possible to save this plant? All help would be appreciated. Please post answers to RGO, as my return address is fake to prevent spam. Thanks, Delphinus
Response:
Rick, That depends on the medium and the plant. If you’re talking an inert medium such as clay spheres, then the water can wick up into the medium, but it stays airy and won’t decompose. If you’re using a more traditional, organic medium, it can decompose, or become so soppy that the roots die. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i understand the concept of the pebbles and more humidity but i would swear that i have read somewhere about setting the entire pot in a tray of water about 1/2" deep. I’ll look again for the article. Rick message The idea is to set them on a tray full of wet pebbles (to increase surface area) in order to enhance the local humidity. The plant’s pot should not come in contact with the wet pebbles or the water. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! would you then suggest not having these plants sitting in trays of water during growth periods and just keeping an eye on them and keeping them watered? Rick message Without knowing the details of the setup, I’d be concerned that the plant may have been sitting right in the water, keeping it too wet. In S/H culture, where there’s lots of air flow to the roots, they adapt just fine, but in most other media, that is not the case. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Ray, what am I missing here? Isn’t this one of those green things that like to be sitting in a tray of water during it’s growth season? I read this and become leery of leaving my roths. and Victoria rageanes in trays. Also the same in semi hydro (similar to) seem to be lovin it! — Stress not over the little things; and the large ones will disappear! Rick~ in message Dip the base in a rooting hormone, place it in a damp but airy medium in a plastic bag to keep the humidity high and pray. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! message Hi All, We have a paph which has had the potting medium soaking wet for a while now. Please don’t ask how it got that way!!! (( The root has rotted completely, but there is still lots of greenery up top. Is it possible to save this plant? All help would be appreciated. Please post answers to RGO, as my return address is fake to prevent spam. Thanks, Delphinus
Response:
thank you for all your replies and valuable info Rick
That is one way some people kill phrags…. and swear by it. Paphs do not want so much moisture. Most Phrags need to have more air than I can give them with the pot sitting in water. I do grow some in the semi-hydro (see Firstrays.com) suggested by Ray. SuE
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i understand the concept of the pebbles and more humidity but i would swear that i have read somewhere about setting the entire pot in a tray of water about 1/2" deep. I’ll look again for the article. Rick message The idea is to set them on a tray full of wet pebbles (to increase surface area) in order to enhance the local humidity. The plant’s pot should not come in contact with the wet pebbles or the water. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! would you then suggest not having these plants sitting in trays of water during growth periods and just keeping an eye on them and keeping them watered? Rick in message
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Without knowing the details of the setup, I’d be concerned that the plant may have been sitting right in the water, keeping it too wet. In S/H culture, where there’s lots of air flow to the roots, they adapt just fine, but in most other media, that is not the case. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Ray, what am I missing here? Isn’t this one of those green things that like to be sitting in a tray of water during it’s growth season? I read this and become leery of leaving my roths. and Victoria rageanes in trays. Also the same in semi hydro (similar to) seem to be lovin it! — Stress not over the little things; and the large ones will disappear! Rick~ wrote in message Dip the base in a rooting hormone, place it in a damp but airy medium in a plastic bag to keep the humidity high and pray. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! message Hi All, We have a paph which has had the potting medium soaking wet for a while now. Please don’t ask how it got that way!!! (( The root has rotted completely, but there is still lots of greenery up top. Is it possible to save this plant? All help would be appreciated. Please post answers to RGO, as my return address is fake to prevent spam. Thanks, Delphinus
Response:
That is one way some people kill phrags…. and swear by it. Paphs do not want so much moisture. Most Phrags need to have more air than I can give them with the pot sitting in water. I do grow some in the semi-hydro (see Firstrays.com) suggested by Ray. SuE – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -i understand the concept of the pebbles and more humidity but i would swear that i have read somewhere about setting the entire pot in a tray of water about 1/2" deep. I’ll look again for the article. Rick message The idea is to set them on a tray full of wet pebbles (to increase surface area) in order to enhance the local humidity. The plant’s pot should not come in contact with the wet pebbles or the water. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! would you then suggest not having these plants sitting in trays of water during growth periods and just keeping an eye on them and keeping them watered? Rick message Without knowing the details of the setup, I’d be concerned that the plant may have been sitting right in the water, keeping it too wet. In S/H culture, where there’s lots of air flow to the roots, they adapt just fine, but in most other media, that is not the case. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Ray, what am I missing here? Isn’t this one of those green things that like to be sitting in a tray of water during it’s growth season? I read this and become leery of leaving my roths. and Victoria rageanes in trays. Also the same in semi hydro (similar to) seem to be lovin it! — Stress not over the little things; and the large ones will disappear! Rick~ in message Dip the base in a rooting hormone, place it in a damp but airy medium in a plastic bag to keep the humidity high and pray. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! message Hi All, We have a paph which has had the potting medium soaking wet for a while now. Please don’t ask how it got that way!!! (( The root has rotted completely, but there is still lots of greenery up top. Is it possible to save this plant? All help would be appreciated. Please post answers to RGO, as my return address is fake to prevent spam. Thanks, Delphinus
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Question:
You know, for all the great information that has been presented in this thread, I am still amazed that one would use other peoples’ success – or lack thereof – as a basis for making business decisions. Al spoke to that. So much research is needed before starting ANY business, large or small, and though certain market realities obviously need to be taken into serious consideration, one’s own business plan, based on good information, will have much to do with whether one succeeds. There are those who adhere to a basic rule of thumb: A business should be showing a 20 – 25% profit AFTER paying the principals a competitive salary. But this applies to a business that is designed to be the sole, or at least major, support and occupation of the principals. OTOH, I know folks who buy flasks and compots, let them develop, keep the best plants for their own collections, and sell the rest, thus simply financing their hobbies. And, as Al aptly put it, earning a tax write-off in the process. Not so bad. Diana
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My first response when I read your question was: "Oh! It’s suppose to be profitable. How did I miss *that* point?" But it was a serious question and I waited to see if it got any serious replies. Where would you look to get the answer to this question? Are there any Orchid Grower Associations in Southern California who might have these numbers or some idea of the answer? How about the chamber of Commerce? One of the first things you must do before you start any business at all is to look at your own requirements. How much do you need to make to support your life style? Is it $10.00 an hour? $20.00? Since you will be spending all of your time at this business it must be able to pay all of its own expenses PLUS yours. I think most people’s response here is "Well, Duh!" but this is where most people get lost in the calculation to determine the endeavor’s profitability, "I can grow these in my greenhouse and sell them and then I won’t have to go to work." The idea to ’start small’…well, what does that mean? Operating at a loss for X number of years? Maybe it means springing for only a 3000 sq. foot greenhouse as opposed to a 300,000 sq. foot greenhouse? The latter may be the worse way of thinking about it. The smaller operation may doom itself to failure. And you are going to have to work just as hard. Do you know how to use a spread sheet? :-) Do you know how to turn your projected expenses into an average cost per square foot number? Weather you are making your own plants or buying them to resell, much comes down to the cost of using the space in your greenhouse. The longer the plants sit there, the more expenses they consume above their initial cost. These expenses will vary from place to place, this much you already know. Land values and local costs of living and labor are different from place to place. The real question is not weather other people have done it. This is only a barometer of the local scene. You may determine you can make it work, just not in Southern California. But, the true questions you have to ask are "Can *I" do it?" and, "How?" Do you know how to determine the true cost of making the plants if you choose to go this route rather than reselling? The materials may seem inexpensive when you add it all up. But, starting on a small scale, remember how much per hour your time is worth and try not to think about it when you are spending all of it in front of the laminar flow hood. A small business/hobby is not necessarily designed to make money. "Only a tax write off" is not a bad thing. Good luck. :-)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How profitable is the orchid growing business? I would especially enjoy hearing from Southern California growers who have been in the business for a few years; and who started out small scale.
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How profitable is the orchid growing business? I would especially enjoy hearing from Southern California growers who have been in the business for a few years; and who started out small scale. Hi Robert, Interesting question- and not one where most enthusiasts want an answer.
Years ago, like 10 or 11, I (living in SoCal) thought about starting a small orchid business, so I contacted the big names in the business, and suprising to me, got personal replies (Robert Scully, Jr., Ned Nash, and others) and they all unanimously warned me that the business was changing rapidly and suggested I keep it a hobby and not a source of income. [snip] I say "with their own breeding programs" because that makes an enormous difference these days. As little as 20 years ago, the Hawaii scene was just starting and the Taiwan orchid scene was practically non-existent. But now these two regions dominate the orchid world. You can buy near blooming size dendrobiums for 60 cents each in bundles out of Taiwan. And in Hawaii, you can get blooming plants for as little as $3 wholesale.
And thus we see zillions of eBay ‘businesses’ offering these $3 plants for two to three times that. And dozens of storefront orchid re-sellers, all seeming to have the same stock. Because they do! I’ve thought about how wasteful this all is. Why not, if one is insistant on selling orchids, find an orchid niche (like your example of Bill Tippit) and develop that into something special? [snip] And speaking of pesticides- that makes California a tough place to grow many things these days. Not sure about orchids, but many winemakers are stewing over new laws that all but forbid many pesticide treatments for environmental concerns. That and the rising cost of land has chased many long time nurseries out of Southern California- Stewart’s being a prime example.
It is my impression that it was not just land costs, but that when Agristar wanted out, if the current owners didn’t step in the establishment would just have disappeared. So they moved it to their homeland (Mississippi), also known as the anti-California. Not to mention power costs. The fake power crisis induced by panic and a few large trading companies (ie Enron) forced the govt. to enter into long term contracts for huge electricity prices with the public utilities which translates into very high greenhouse costs for consumers.
I think you are being too kind to our Gov. Davis. He has screwed the state over! And the biggest gougers were the PUBLIC utility in Los Angeles. The Government-as-Savior folks (like Davis) *have* to have crises to excuse their expansion of goverment. If no crisis is handy, they’ll create one! Southern California is, IMHO, the WORST place to start an orchid business right now.
You didn’t mention water problems. But labor (illegal) is cheap! [snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hope this helps! My best advice is to do what many of us do. Start small. Do it on the side in addition to your real job. Breed plants. Save your best seedlings. Then someday when you retire or have enough money on your own, you will have the breeding stock to make it on your own and maybe even make some money. You are never going to beat Hawaii or Asia on price, so you have to beat them by having something unique that people want and that the commercial guys are not messing with. In Bill Tippit’s case- that would be multifloral Phalaenopsis. For places like Woodstream and Fox Hill it is Masdevallias. Find a niche and go with it.
Being we are talking about southern california, it seems to me that the original poster should look at the Mexican species. These are pretty much ingnored by the asians and Hawaiins. They will, most of them, grow well here. The only person I know who does much breeding with them is Sandro Cusi (Rio Verde in Mexico). I believe many of the Encyclias offer much, even for the pot plant market (e.g., long bloom time.) Among the Laelias the only one used by mainline orchid growers is anceps; the others also offer possibilities (and most are just as easy, if not easier, to grow.) Barkerias (most) offer lots of flowers from small plants. Etc…. Anway, my point is niches do exist, and should be exploited. I agree that offering a unique product is the only way to exist along side the mega-growers from Taiwan. Or, one must be a marketing wiz, and simply outsell the competitors. -dan
Response:
How profitable is the orchid growing business? I would especially enjoy hearing from Southern California growers who have been in the business for a few years; and who started out small scale.
Response:
Though I am not a commercial grower, I suspect that in order to answer your question one would need to factor in a sum for pain and suffering, and another for pure joy. <S Diana
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How profitable is the orchid growing business? I would especially enjoy hearing from Southern California growers who have been in the business for a few years; and who started out small scale.
Response:
How profitable is the orchid growing business? I would especially enjoy hearing from Southern California growers who have been in the business for a few years; and who started out small scale.
Hi Robert, Interesting question- and not one where most enthusiasts want an answer. To being, I started growing orchids when I was 9- almost 20 years ago- and while I have bought and sold a lot, it has never been my sole income. Yet I have done the show circuit, and have represented for Carmela a few times, so I do have some notion of how this works. There is an old joke in the orchid world- "How do you make a million dollars?" The answer- "Start with two million dollars and go into the orchid business." Now more than ever I think this adage holds true. Some points I think are worth noting, 1. Many, not all but many, of the great hybridizers and sellers of orchids in the US made their money elsewhere. Harry Freiburg of Creole Orchids was in mahogany. Alfred Proebstle (famed Cattleya man and Houston OS founding member) made his money in sulfur. John Martin started off as a cardiologist. Topper- one of the great Paph. species specialists- invented a bird seed mix that is still a favorite today. The Ehlerts- a venerable Houston group once known for excellent hybridizing- made their money in a machine shop. Bill Tippit (Olympia Orchids) and Bob Chauvin (ABC Orchids) were in the oil business (or as we in Texas call it- The Aaawl Bidniss.) These are just a few examples. As far as people who made a good living in orchids in the US with their own breeding programs- I think Alan Koch (Gold Country Orchids) and Bob Fuchs (R.F. Orchids) are the only two I know who have attained a secure and comfortable lifestyle out of it without having made significant money in another field first. I say "with their own breeding programs" because that makes an enormous difference these days. As little as 20 years ago, the Hawaii scene was just starting and the Taiwan orchid scene was practically non-existent. But now these two regions dominate the orchid world. You can buy near blooming size dendrobiums for 60 cents each in bundles out of Taiwan. And in Hawaii, you can get blooming plants for as little as $3 wholesale. So for many US growers, it is tough to be profitable with a breeding program. This is because you have a choice. You can pollinate, flask, compot- all at enormous expense over a 2-3 year period- OR you can spend 60 cents a plant and get them already near blooming size to flower and sell. But the difficulty then becomes one of competition- on two fronts. On the one hand- you could bring in the cheap plants from Asia. But at shows and on the net you will compete with scores of other growers who are doing that same thing. And that keeps profit margins low. Or you can do your own breeding and with the general US costs and the higher costs of maintaining plants here (in Hawaii you just need shadecloth and you are growing orchids) your prices will be very high thus keeping you from being competitive. Now many of the great breeders I mentioned at the start of my post who are still in business today can charge those higher prices- but they cater to a smaller market for the most part, and they could care less since they are financially secure in their own right outside of orchids. And then there are people like me I have no greenhouse. So when a big show is coming, I will represent for one of the big Asian or Hawaiian firms. They ship the plants the week of the show, I sell them, and keep a cut. Or I buy in bulk plants in spike and sell off the ones that I do not want to keep when they flower. Not my primary income source, but it subsidizes the hobby for me. It is an especially hard time to get into orchids as a sole income. Harder than before I think. This is because you just cannot possibly be more cost efficient than the Asian and Hawaiian growers who can grow plants for very little cost due to the natural environment in which they grow their plants (to say nothing of cheap labor.) A final consideration is plant condition and appearance. I went to the Galveston Show a few weeks ago and quite a few vendors were selling plants that, frankly, looked like garbage compared to the pristine fresh imports. So you not only have to grow the plants at a higher cost here, but you have to take steps to keep them "looking" nice in a way that many US grown plants do not compared to their Asian and Taiwanese competition. This also ties back to general environment (and also more lax rules about pesticides.) And speaking of pesticides- that makes California a tough place to grow many things these days. Not sure about orchids, but many winemakers are stewing over new laws that all but forbid many pesticide treatments for environmental concerns. That and the rising cost of land has chased many long time nurseries out of Southern California- Stewart’s being a prime example. Not to mention power costs. The fake power crisis induced by panic and a few large trading companies (ie Enron) forced the govt. to enter into long term contracts for huge electricity prices with the public utilities which translates into very high greenhouse costs for consumers. Southern California is, IMHO, the WORST place to start an orchid business right now. I love LA, but you have a lot of environmental folks to deal with there- many of whom have no idea what the real science is and instead prefer to advocate- with success I might add- some pretty severe restrictions. Hope this helps! My best advice is to do what many of us do. Start small. Do it on the side in addition to your real job. Breed plants. Save your best seedlings. Then someday when you retire or have enough money on your own, you will have the breeding stock to make it on your own and maybe even make some money. You are never going to beat Hawaii or Asia on price, so you have to beat them by having something unique that people want and that the commercial guys are not messing with. In Bill Tippit’s case- that would be multifloral Phalaenopsis. For places like Woodstream and Fox Hill it is Masdevallias. Find a niche and go with it. Tom.
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Question:
Wendy, Frankly, I haven’t seen the ads you are referring to. However, ozone works quite well for removing odors. So, they do a lot of the things that are claimed. However, they can also do other things that we don’t want to happen…..
Just a little note: George Herriman, the creator of -Krazy Kat- had an earlier cartoon strip called –Major Ozone’s Fresh Air Crusade–. At one time ozone was considered to be healthful. The Air Force experimented with liquid ozone as a means of "spiking" rocket fuels back in the 1950-s and early ’60’s. They gave it up after discovering that ozone was too unstable for safe handling in bulk. It had a tendency to explode spontaneously when jostled. BTW, the city of Philippi, WV (I live there) uses UV at its sewage treatment plant. The microbiology class at the local college set up a project to monitor the microbials in the discharge water. They couldn’t get much of anything to grow. The UV killed just about everything. J. Del Col
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Shucks! And I have two orchids hanging in the skylight over our bed and was hoping they would benefit from all that snoring-generated co2!! — Reka http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html "I hate flowers – I paint them because they’re cheaper than models and they don’t move." –Georgia O’Keeffe | | I probably wouldn’t worry too much about the timing except to say that c3 | and c4 plants fix during the daytime and cam plants fix at night…. and | that the majority of your orchids would not be cam (but some are e.g. | rhycostylis gigantea) so better off releaseing co2 during daytime
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Thanks again, John — a good article. I really have doubts about these things and there seem to be no controlled studies to back up the stupendous claims. I have eliminated ozone and ion generators from consideration for my greenhouse, but I am still thinking about carbon dioxide generation, since there actually are studies about that that show it is beneficial to plant growth, and that carbon dioxide is quickly depleted in a relatively tight greenhouse. The problem with orchids is that some are C3 and others C4 plants, and fix carbon dioxide at different times, some during the day and others at night. But perhaps some generation at fixed times during the day or night would help. Or maybe just for seedlings.
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mmmm…. a few years ago at an Asia pacific orchid conference there was a guy from Japan (?) who had done a lot of work showing that oncidiums flower much much much nicer (more branches, larger flowers, more flowers, longer stems….) when given additional carbon dioxide (suggestion was if you had an enclosed glasshouse that you set up a beer brewing vat/container which would produce elevated co2 levels…. note this would also affect ethylene levels) I probably wouldn’t worry too much about the timing except to say that c3 and c4 plants fix during the daytime and cam plants fix at night…. and that the majority of your orchids would not be cam (but some are e.g. rhycostylis gigantea) so better off releaseing co2 during daytime more in mornings/afternoons than in the peak times when light levels are toooo intense for the plant to risk doing too much photosynthesis (but again am really over simplifying it…). An interesting point to note is that the most limiting factor in plant growth most of the time is carbon dioxide levels (not nutrients and not light although these do help push growths along…) cheers (happy beer brewing….) Thanks again, John — a good article. I really have doubts about these things and there seem to be no controlled studies to back up the stupendous claims. I have eliminated ozone and ion generators from consideration for my greenhouse, but I am still thinking about carbon dioxide generation, since there actually are studies about that that show it is beneficial to plant growth, and that carbon dioxide is quickly depleted in a relatively tight greenhouse. The problem with orchids is that some are C3 and others C4 plants, and fix carbon dioxide at different times, some during the day and others at night. But perhaps some generation at fixed times during the day or night would help. Or maybe just for seedlings.
– Leanne Forsyth Room 532 Hines Building Phone 3365 2854 School of Life Sciences University of Queensland, Brisbane Australia
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Wendy, The biggest problem I’ve seen with the negative ion generator is that most of the units do not have a ‘collector’ to pick up the charged particles. The dust in the air picks up the charge and then will head for the walls, tables, drapes, etc. and collect there. I’ve heard of people having to do a lot of cleaning after using the generator. Of a personal note, I found that, when I had to spend much time in a room with a negative ion generator, that I ended up with a sore/scratchy throat. Haven’t seen anything written about that, but it did affect me. One site I found against ion generators is: http://www.netasia.net/users/truehealth/Negative%20Ion%20Therapy.htm . You can decide for yourself. John G. Talpa, CWS-VI Certified Water Specialist JT Company
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks, John, that helps quite a bit. I am in the process of building a greenhouse and had read about the wonderful benefits of ozone generators (you can see such claims by doing a google search with those words, or visit a site such as wormsway.com, or other general indoor gardening site — hydroponics stores in particular have them, perhaps for the odor-reducing qualities you mention) when I came across a federal study that basically disavowed all of the supposed benefits of ozone. The claims are incredible — cleans the air so you can sleep better, doubles plant growth, etc., with no mention of ozone’s polluting nature. But now that I have your attention let me ask one more question. What about the "negative ionization" generators often sold on the same page? Do they do anything helpful or harmful? I asked a chemistry prof and she told me that the negative ionization produced after an electrical storm is dissipated quickly and she did not believe these generators could produce anything useful that would last. Thanks.
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Thanks, John, that helps quite a bit. I am in the process of building a greenhouse and had read about the wonderful benefits of ozone generators (you can see such claims by doing a google search with those words, or visit a site such as wormsway.com, or other general indoor gardening site — hydroponics stores in particular have them, perhaps for the odor-reducing qualities you mention) when I came across a federal study that basically disavowed all of the supposed benefits of ozone. The claims are incredible — cleans the air so you can sleep better, doubles plant growth, etc., with no mention of ozone’s polluting nature. But now that I have your attention let me ask one more question. What about the "negative ionization" generators often sold on the same page? Do they do anything helpful or harmful? I asked a chemistry prof and she told me that the negative ionization produced after an electrical storm is dissipated quickly and she did not believe these generators could produce anything useful that would last. Thanks.
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John, I know ozone is a serious pollutant. Why do so many horticultural sites sell "ozone generators" as if they are air cleaner?
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Wendy, Frankly, I haven’t seen the ads you are referring to. However, ozone works quite well for removing odors. So, they do a lot of the things that are claimed. However, they can also do other things that we don’t want to happen. Many hotels will place an ozone generator into a room where there has been smokers or other things have gone on that cause a room to be unuseable. In a short matter of time, the offending odors are gone. During the time that the ozone generator is operating, no one is allowed in the room. The room cannot be occupied until the ozone has dissipated to an acceptable level. This is because ozone causes damage to mucus membranes, lungs, etc. I had one call about water treatment a while back where the woman had some health problems and was concerned about her drinking water. In talking with her, I found out that she had an ozone generator in her house that was on at all times and then she bought one for her car for when she traveled. I told her to research ozone a little further and to get the technical data from the manufacturer proving that the units met the standards. I wish she had gotten back to me after discontinuing the ozone to know if she improved. A number of ozone units on the market had to be removed until they met the federal standards for ozone levels because they produced too much. But, that has not prevented the sales of such units. Quite often, a scientific report will come out showing the beneficial effects of a given technology. Some people will then run with that information and use it to sell what ever product they create before knowing anything more about the technology. My personal belief is that many of the problems are caused by people who get over enthusiastic about what they are selling and don’t really know their product. They can get so caught up in the ’sale’ that they will say whatever is necessary to sell. I find it all the time in water treatment. As a dealer, I investigate the products I find interesting before I decide to sell them. Most of the time, I won’t even think about carrying a product if the company has been in business less than a year because many companies don’t last a year, but I still have to answer to my customers if I sold them the product. As consumers, we need to look deeper into what we are purchasing to know if it is right for us, require proof that it does what they say it will do, and find out if there are side effects from the product. Sometimes, even that won’t be enough. Well, I’m off the soap box. Hope this helps. John G. Talpa, CWS-VI Certified Water Specialist JT Company
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John, I know ozone is a serious pollutant. Why do so many horticultural sites sell "ozone generators" as if they are air cleaner?
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Ray, Just so you know, the pricing on UV units has steadily dropped. For example, now, going from 3/4 gpm to 2 gpm is about $20. Then, going up to 5 gpm is another $40. Of course, units are available for any water flow you want. While this might be more than some want to spend, it is much less expensive than just a few years back. When considering using hydroponics for growing orchids, it would be money very well spent. You would be able to treat all of the water rather than a side stream. If sized properly, UV can attain very high ‘kill’ rates. 99.99% kill has been the normal standard for UV units. Now, the units are rated at mj/cm2 dosage rather than kill rates. So, it is just a matter of using a Dose-Flow chart to determine the proper sizing for the dosage required. John G. Talpa, CWS-VI Certified Water Specialist JT Company – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Al, Most of us shy away from "community water" sources for fear of spreading disease. While I have not used UV on plant water supplies, I have on marine aquaria. They ain’t 100% effective, and you have to replace the bulbs periodically to maintain the intensity. One of the problems is that you need a fairly long exposure time to really get a high kill rate, meaning that you can only pass a portion of the water through the unit, and that is at a slow flow rate. With a larger UV unit, that’s not an issue, but the $$$$ might be. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Hello, is there anybody out there who uses ultraviolet light in the water circulation systems of their hydroponics setup to destroy pathogens who can tell me if it also helps keep down the transmission of viruses from plant to plant via the circulation system? How often do you have the plants in the system tested for virus?
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Hello, is there anybody out there who uses ultraviolet light in the water circulation systems of their hydroponics setup to destroy pathogens who can tell me if it also helps keep down the transmission of viruses from plant to plant via the circulation system? How often do you have the plants in the system tested for virus?
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Al, Most of us shy away from "community water" sources for fear of spreading disease. While I have not used UV on plant water supplies, I have on marine aquaria. They ain’t 100% effective, and you have to replace the bulbs periodically to maintain the intensity. One of the problems is that you need a fairly long exposure time to really get a high kill rate, meaning that you can only pass a portion of the water through the unit, and that is at a slow flow rate. With a larger UV unit, that’s not an issue, but the $$$$ might be. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, is there anybody out there who uses ultraviolet light in the water circulation systems of their hydroponics setup to destroy pathogens who can tell me if it also helps keep down the transmission of viruses from plant to plant via the circulation system? How often do you have the plants in the system tested for virus?
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another down side of using UV lights is that when you leave them on for a long time they can cause a build up of ozone (not to sure if they are catalysing the reaction and creating it or just attracting it) which can be harmful for humans (and dogs and cats too….) cheers – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Al, Most of us shy away from "community water" sources for fear of spreading disease. While I have not used UV on plant water supplies, I have on marine aquaria. They ain’t 100% effective, and you have to replace the bulbs periodically to maintain the intensity. One of the problems is that you need a fairly long exposure time to really get a high kill rate, meaning that you can only pass a portion of the water through the unit, and that is at a slow flow rate. With a larger UV unit, that’s not an issue, but the $$$$ might be. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Hello, is there anybody out there who uses ultraviolet light in the water circulation systems of their hydroponics setup to destroy pathogens who can tell me if it also helps keep down the transmission of viruses from plant to plant via the circulation system? How often do you have the plants in the system tested for virus?
– Leanne Forsyth Room 532 Hines Building Phone 3365 2854 School of Life Sciences University of Queensland, Brisbane Australia
Response:
Leanne, Ozone buildup is a common occurrence in UV systems used in air ducts, air purifiers, etc. In fact, that is one of the reasons that I don’t sell the type of units that are commonly found on the open market. Even the electrostatic air cleaners that are found in central heating and cooling units are known for ozone production. However, in the UV units used for water disinfection, I have not found any literature citing ozone production as a problem. Ozone has a distinctive odor and I have not noticed it around any of the units I have installed. Plus, none of my customers have complained about any ‘odd’ odor from their units. This is probably due to the fact that there is very little contact with air in a water unit. The UV goes from the bulb, through a small air gap that is basically a dead air space, through a quartz tube, into the water. Actual ozone producing systems use UV technology to produce the ozone if a minimal amount is needed and, when larger amounts of ozone are necessary, corona discharge (similar to lightning) is used to form the ozone. Now the opposite side. UV units, using a different portion of the UV spectrum, are used as an ozone distruct system to destroy excess ozone that outgasses from an operating ozone system. This is probably more than you wanted to know, but I hope it helps. John G. Talpa, CWS-VI Certified Water Specialist JT Company
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – another down side of using UV lights is that when you leave them on for a long time they can cause a build up of ozone (not to sure if they are catalysing the reaction and creating it or just attracting it) which can be harmful for humans (and dogs and cats too….) cheers Al, Most of us shy away from "community water" sources for fear of spreading disease. While I have not used UV on plant water supplies, I have on marine aquaria. They ain’t 100% effective, and you have to replace the bulbs periodically to maintain the intensity. One of the problems is that you need a fairly long exposure time to really get a high kill rate, meaning that you can only pass a portion of the water through the unit, and that is at a slow flow rate. With a larger UV unit, that’s not an issue, but the $$$$ might be. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! Hello, is there anybody out there who uses ultraviolet light in the water circulation systems of their hydroponics setup to destroy pathogens who can tell me if it also helps keep down the transmission of viruses from plant to plant via the circulation system? How often do you have the plants in the system tested for virus? — Leanne Forsyth Room 532 Hines Building Phone 3365 2854 School of Life Sciences University of Queensland, Brisbane Australia
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Question:
Hi i want to start an terrerium. 260*180*60. I would like to put orchids in. the problem i have is the amount of light, required by the different spieces. The higher, the more light available, and so on. The Question i have is, could anyone advise me in the different spieces that are available, for these different light spectrums Thanks in advance.
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Hi i want to start an terrerium. 260*180*60. I would like to put orchids in. the problem i have is the amount of light, required by the different spieces. The higher, the more light available, and so on. The Question i have is, could anyone advise me in the different spieces that are available, for these different light spectrums Thanks in advance.
Hello, Stuart! A lot of this depends upon what you enjoy growing. For example, you will need to know if you are going to grow cool, intermediate, or warm-growing orchids. It will also depend upon your size constraints, as you will not wish to grow very tall species in what I assume is a 60-cm (~2 foot) tall orchidarium. I would recommend the following. If you currently do not have many orchids, look through catalogs- even the ones on-line will give you a good idea as to the temperatures and amount of light each species enjoys. If not, perhaps you can say, "You know, I have always wanted a collection of pleurothallids. Or draculas. Or lepanthes. Or rupiculous laelias." From there, it is a short leap to find out how much light each group requires, and make arrangements accordingly. As a general recommendation, the genus Pleurothallis offers a great diversity of species with minimal space requirements. Most grow readily, and are ideal for an orchidarium or Wardian case. If you are speaking of a true terrarium, with terrestrial orchids with roots in dirt, that is another kettle of fish entirely. Tell us your dreams! Your aspirations! I know how folks in the Netherlands are about their plants. Surely we can help you establish a fine collection of plants. -AJHicks Chandler, AZ
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Question:
My apologies if this posts twice. my original reply is not showing up for me. I can’t remember where you live, Tom, but I *think* you are in Florida, right?
Hi K- Actually I am in Houston. Thanks for all the links! I appreciate it. Definitely a lot of good new things out there in Paphs. One more question though, the colchinine thing- back when I was last involved in orchids seriously, this was under heavy debate as to whether it would become an acceptable practice. What is the status? Can these plants be shown for awards? I do need to sign back up with the AOS too at some point. I notice they sell the bulletin at Barnes and Noble now! Pretty neat. Tom.
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Colchicine must be OK, because no one says anything about it… The only thing I’ve heard is that very few of teh protocorms are affected by it. I’ve heard that many die upon treatment, and the ones that remain may or may not be polyploid. But don’t listen to me! I only listen to those conversations with half an ear. Either Mick Fournier or Aaron Hicks (or just about anyone other than me) would have more info about that. I didn’t know ‘Orchids’ was for sale on the newsracks! Good going AOS!! K Barrett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My apologies if this posts twice. my original reply is not showing up for me. I can’t remember where you live, Tom, but I *think* you are in Florida, right? Hi K- Actually I am in Houston. Thanks for all the links! I appreciate it. Definitely a lot of good new things out there in Paphs. One more question though, the colchinine thing- back when I was last involved in orchids seriously, this was under heavy debate as to whether it would become an acceptable practice. What is the status? Can these plants be shown for awards? I do need to sign back up with the AOS too at some point. I notice they sell the bulletin at Barnes and Noble now! Pretty neat. Tom.
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I can’t remember where you live, Tom, but I *think* you are in Florida, right?
Hi K! Good to see ya again. I am actually in Houston. Thanks for the Paph recs. I will check them out. You are right about Orchid Zone. They are doing such a bang-up good job that it seems like everyone has their plants these days LOL. I would order from them, but the minumums are too high and I have to take coloratums with vinis. Pricing is very fair, but with my limited space and limited resale options, I cannot handle 70 coloratums to get 30 vinis. But I will definitely give those other links a peek! Take care, Tom.
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I can’t remember where you live, Tom, but I *think* you are in Florida, right? Terry Glancy is a good paph grower in Florida. And maybe if you do a search you may be able to find the US rep for Ratcliffs. They are also in Florida. And, of course, there’s Bob Wellenstein on the web. http://www.ladyslipper.com who not only has wonderful paphs and slippers, but sells flasks and compots. Even divisions. Always check his page. Try not to drool on the keyboard. If you are out here on the west coast, the world is run by The Orchid Zone, which is wholesale and seemingly everyone gets their stock from him (‘him’ being Terry Root). As an alternate is Orchids of Los Osos, or whatever Mike Glickbarg’s business is called. And, just another time when I let my secret sources out in public, there’s Sherwood Orchids (http://www.sherwoodorchids.com I hope that works, I’m recalling from memory) for flasks of some pretty fine stuff, and The Paph House (http://www.paphhouse.com ??again recalling from memory). They are a small vendor in San Leandro Ca, but get a lot of awards around here. They may have back stock in stuff you are interested in. Owners are Fred Jernigan and Francisco Baptista. I don’t know if I’ve answered your question, but I hope I’ve given you some options. Oh! And never forget to use the google search engine! I know it sounds stupid, but just putting the name of teh plant you want into the engine will yeild tons of hits of pictures, people who have the plants, or vendors who may sell them or their succeeding generations. Welcome back to the hobby. Don’t forget to sign up to the AOS. The magazine may or may not be as great to read anymore, but the ads in the back are leads to sources http://orchidweb.org I think they are having a sale on membership, sign up for 2 years and get a gift certificate for $30 at a vendor off their list. Carmela’s might even be on the list! And also sign up for the Orchid Digest mag (http://www.orchiddigest.com or is it http://www.orchiddigest.org )? KILLER pictures! I also get Orchid Australia, though I’m not sure why. I like looking at their pictures and reading a funner magazine, or at least one which isn’t stuffy. Occaisionally they have nice articles too. http://www.orchidsaustralia.com K Barrett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all! I have lurked and posted a bit here over the past couple of years, but finally I am gonna start growing again. I just left a job with 80% travel to be home more, and a call to Carmela Orchids was a first stop My new babies should be here next week. Gosh I miss this! I started when I was 9 and these past two years have been the only time in my life (even in college I had plants!) that I have been without. One question I do have for everyone. I am finding out that a lot has happened in the orchid world in two years! Lots of old sources gone, and some others not in the best of shape. So where do I find good vinicolors these days? I cannot find anyone on the net who is listing double factor, or at least red base, plants by themselves for sale. Tom.
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Hello all! I have lurked and posted a bit here over the past couple of years, but finally I am gonna start growing again. I just left a job with 80% travel to be home more, and a call to Carmela Orchids was a first stop My new babies should be here next week. Gosh I miss this! I started when I was 9 and these past two years have been the only time in my life (even in college I had plants!) that I have been without. One question I do have for everyone. I am finding out that a lot has happened in the orchid world in two years! Lots of old sources gone, and some others not in the best of shape. So where do I find good vinicolors these days? I cannot find anyone on the net who is listing double factor, or at least red base, plants by themselves for sale. Tom.
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Question:
Agreed, Rob. 7-8 years ago I think. ‘Nuff said! -Rod- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, don’t post it to the newsgroup. I think the group decided long ago that posting that you have plants for sale is fine, posting a list of plants for sale was not.
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seems kinda silly to me – how does one revise the "rules"? I’d propose that it would be ok to sell orchids or orchid related items but not chairs for example.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, don’t post it to the newsgroup. I think the group decided long ago that posting that you have plants for sale is fine, posting a list of plants for sale was not. Anyway, send lists by e-mail, announcements by newsgroup, and nobody will yell. Well, some people yell just to hear themselves, I think, but most people won’t be offended. Have fun, Rob (novice show chair. Show this weekend. Ack!) post the list! I have a small collection of about 600 orchids. I am repotting them and I have a list of plants I am willing to trade/sell. If you are interested, I can send a list of what I have managed to write down so far. The list will be updated over the next month or so. thanks, Jerry — Rob’s Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit
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seems kinda silly to me – how does one revise the "rules"? I’d propose that it would be ok to sell orchids or orchid related items but not chairs for example.
I think the idea was probably to keep commercialization to a minimum. I do think there’s a difference between someone clearing out their own collection and selling on an on-going basis (basically, as a business whether full-time or not) but it’s easy enough to email lists to people who’re interested, and it’ll keep the flames down in the newsgroup. (As in people flaming each other over what is and isn’t "commercial" or "personal" or whatever.) Michael
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Michael, et al, As one who participated in the discussions of the time, from a bully pulpit some might say, the idea was to keep everything on a level playing field. So the vocal members accepted what seems fair to all. Announce whatever list one had to the world and tell em how to get it. It keeps people focused on growing Orchids rather than the buying or selling of them. -Rod- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – seems kinda silly to me – how does one revise the "rules"? I’d propose that it would be ok to sell orchids or orchid related items but not chairs for example. I think the idea was probably to keep commercialization to a minimum. I do think there’s a difference between someone clearing out their own collection and selling on an on-going basis (basically, as a business whether full-time or not) but it’s easy enough to email lists to people who’re interested, and it’ll keep the flames down in the newsgroup. (As in people flaming each other over what is and isn’t "commercial" or "personal" or whatever.) Michael
– Rod C. Venger – Head and Neck Cancer Support T4N0M0 – Facial Reconstructions, 2-5-99, 3-13-00 Photo and info: http:/www.vengers.com/model.jpg Sponsors needed for HNO documentary! Call 1-800-483-6437
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The trouble is that once you get started in that direction, it is hard to find where to draw the line. This discussion has come and gone over the years. There is no moderator in this group. There is nobody to enforce "the rule." Mostly, the discussion leads to a lot of flaming and that tends to drive people away. What you refer to as a rule is more a comfortable compromise that allows RGO to continue on. Ken Woodward Newton, MA http://kwoodward.net
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – seems kinda silly to me – how does one revise the "rules"? I’d propose that it would be ok to sell orchids or orchid related items but not chairs for example. Actually, don’t post it to the newsgroup. I think the group decided long ago that posting that you have plants for sale is fine, posting a list of plants for sale was not. Anyway, send lists by e-mail, announcements by newsgroup, and nobody will yell. Well, some people yell just to hear themselves, I think, but most people won’t be offended. Have fun, Rob (novice show chair. Show this weekend. Ack!) post the list! I have a small collection of about 600 orchids. I am repotting them and I have a list of plants I am willing to trade/sell. If you are interested, I can send a list of what I have managed to write down so far. The list will be updated over the next month or so. thanks, Jerry — Rob’s Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit
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I heard there was a problem with my ad. Sorry, I didn’t mean to cause trouble. I just need to clear off some bench space! I pay by the square foot and with a lot of catts. . . Well, you know how they grow! Thanks for the advice! Jerry
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I am in Fresno CA. The list I compiled has pictures of some, links to others and some have only the name. It is in the form of an email. You can find pics of almost any orchid at that ‘orchidmall’ site. Please email me if you want a list to. . .
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where are you located at and can we come look at them? — mutipule personality disorder can be such a drag….. but hey at least i always have someone to play with
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a small collection of about 600 orchids. I am repotting them and I have a list of plants I am willing to trade/sell. If you are interested, I can send a list of what I have managed to write down so far. The list will be updated over the next month or so. thanks, Jerry
Response:
understand and the "rule" seems to be a good compromise.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The trouble is that once you get started in that direction, it is hard to find where to draw the line. This discussion has come and gone over the years. There is no moderator in this group. There is nobody to enforce "the rule." Mostly, the discussion leads to a lot of flaming and that tends to drive people away. What you refer to as a rule is more a comfortable compromise that allows RGO to continue on. Ken Woodward Newton, MA http://kwoodward.net seems kinda silly to me – how does one revise the "rules"? I’d propose that it would be ok to sell orchids or orchid related items but not chairs for example. Actually, don’t post it to the newsgroup. I think the group decided long ago that posting that you have plants for sale is fine, posting a list of plants for sale was not. Anyway, send lists by e-mail, announcements by newsgroup, and nobody will yell. Well, some people yell just to hear themselves, I think, but most people won’t be offended. Have fun, Rob (novice show chair. Show this weekend. Ack!) post the list! I have a small collection of about 600 orchids. I am repotting them and I have a list of plants I am willing to trade/sell. If you are interested, I can send a list of what I have managed to write down so far. The list will be updated over the next month or so. thanks, Jerry — Rob’s Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit
Response:
Actually, don’t post it to the newsgroup. I think the group decided long ago that posting that you have plants for sale is fine, posting a list of plants for sale was not. Anyway, send lists by e-mail, announcements by newsgroup, and nobody will yell. Well, some people yell just to hear themselves, I think, but most people won’t be offended. Have fun, Rob (novice show chair. Show this weekend. Ack!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – post the list! I have a small collection of about 600 orchids. I am repotting them and I have a list of plants I am willing to trade/sell. If you are interested, I can send a list of what I have managed to write down so far. The list will be updated over the next month or so. thanks, Jerry
– Rob’s Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit
Response:
I have a small collection of about 600 orchids. I am repotting them and I have a list of plants I am willing to trade/sell. If you are interested, I can send a list of what I have managed to write down so far. The list will be updated over the next month or so. thanks, Jerry
Response:
post the list!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a small collection of about 600 orchids. I am repotting them and I have a list of plants I am willing to trade/sell. If you are interested, I can send a list of what I have managed to write down so far. The list will be updated over the next month or so. thanks, Jerry
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Question:
Okay, there you are with two views. I do not fertilize with every watering (I don’t have a GH or sophisticated watering system). It would be onerous, and too few, if you get my meaning. I guess, if things are going reasonably well, which they are, I should not tinker with the system! DK
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Yes, Ray, but you have RO water or something other than tap water, right? Not all of us do. :-( (Hard water here in the Dolomites–wonders me when it doesn’t spill out in chunks…) — Reka http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html "I hate flowers – I paint them because they’re cheaper than models and they don’t move." –Georgia O’Keeffe | I fertilize every time I water, and have never burned roots.
Response:
Hi Diana, You can do either with no problems as long as the conductivity of your fertilizing water is correct for your plants. You need to measure before you put it into the pot then see what drains out. Based on that you can either take the water with fertilizer every time approach or only feed when your water flushes through with a low conductivity level. Your question is an interesting one…if you think about it deeply it can depend on how much time you have available to water once or twice? Commercially large nurseries do not have the time, water, or economics to water twice so thats how they go. Do they grow good plants by fertilizing onto dry compost? In my book your husband has it correct. Best regards Alan L Winthrop www.tissuequickplantlabs.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all…. When I first started growing orchids I took a class at a local nursery. Their philosophy is that the plants should be watered prior to fertilization, based on the wet/dry sponge theory (a damp sponge absorbs liquid more readily than a dry one). With the exception of my Vandaceous plants, that’s what I’ve always done. But, I’ve heard conflicting ideas on the subject, including from my husband. Some say the roots will be too saturated to make good use of the fertilizer if the plant is watered first. What do you guys say? Diana
Response:
Reka, I don’t see why the purity of my initial water has anything to do with whether or not to fertilize every time. I used to do the same before getting an RO system, and with the differences in water quality in all of the places I’ve lived, I’m sure it would have showed. The key, in my mind, is weak fertilizer all the time. I figure that in nature, most plants – especially epiphytes – get almost no food, but what’s there is there all the time. Yeah, one could argue that it’s only available when it rains, but fog, mists, rain and just plain high humidity do a lot to keep nutrients available. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, Ray, but you have RO water or something other than tap water, right? Not all of us do. :-( (Hard water here in the Dolomites–wonders me when it doesn’t spill out in chunks…) — Reka http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html "I hate flowers – I paint them because they’re cheaper than models and they don’t move." –Georgia O’Keeffe | I fertilize every time I water, and have never burned roots.
Response:
Personally, I think people spend way too much time worrying about fertilzer. I use a very, very weak dilution so I can use it anytime I feel like it, without watering first, so as not to burn the roots or cause excessive salt buildup (on clay pots in particular.) -dan
Hi, all…. When I first started growing orchids I took a class at a local nursery. Their philosophy is that the plants should be watered prior to fertilization[snip] But, I’ve heard conflicting ideas on the subject, including from my husband. Some say the roots will be too saturated to make good use of the fertilizer if the plant is watered first.
[snip]
Response:
The best advice, which I have followed since I first read it, was given by Jack Fowlie in the Orchid Digest, many years ago. Basically, orchids with velamen, the epiphytic orchids, should not be watered before fertilizing…yes, the velamen gets saturated, and the fertilizer does not get absorbed. However orchids without velamen, such as paphs and phrags, should be in a moist medium before ferilizing. Usually, these plants are already damp most of the time….but if in doubt, I water first. Take care, Eric Muehlbauer
Response:
A stance I’ve heard recently is that the absorption and saturation by the velemen is almost instantaneous, and then goes no further. If that’s true, watering first essentially prevents the capture of nutrients. I fertilize every time I water, and have never burned roots. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all…. When I first started growing orchids I took a class at a local nursery. Their philosophy is that the plants should be watered prior to fertilization, based on the wet/dry sponge theory (a damp sponge absorbs liquid more readily than a dry one). With the exception of my Vandaceous plants, that’s what I’ve always done. But, I’ve heard conflicting ideas on the subject, including from my husband. Some say the roots will be too saturated to make good use of the fertilizer if the plant is watered first. What do you guys say? Diana
Response:
Hi, all…. When I first started growing orchids I took a class at a local nursery. Their philosophy is that the plants should be watered prior to fertilization, based on the wet/dry sponge theory (a damp sponge absorbs liquid more readily than a dry one). With the exception of my Vandaceous plants, that’s what I’ve always done. But, I’ve heard conflicting ideas on the subject, including from my husband. Some say the roots will be too saturated to make good use of the fertilizer if the plant is watered first. What do you guys say? Diana
Response:
Question:
Alistair, Point your browser to our website for all kinds of free info. Of particular interest might be the basic culture guides for growing orchids in the home, and especially the one concerning phalaenopsis. Once you’ve read those, feel free to shoot specific questions our way! — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the prompt replies. Acting on the advice given, I found thumbtacked to the cork board in the greenhouse the tag that came with the plant. It is indeed a Phal named Best Decision, and on closer inspection the Phal is producing four light green tendrils (if that’s the word) from the base. Now what? My wife is eager to learn more and start a collection, but first how do we feed the regrowing plant? Should it be repotted and into what medium? Anything else, in basics, we should know? Alistair
Response:
Uh-oh, Alistair. The question is, how do you feed her growing and regrowng desire for more orchids? And how will you feed your dwindling savings? Are you independently wealthy?? ;-) Welcome! Stick around, you’ll get lots of good advice, and a few laughs once in a while too. Remember, the best rule in orchid growing is, when in doubt if the plant needs watering, wait another day! (Rob will certainly tell you HIS rules later. Rob, those are my rules, too, but don’t tell MY husband!) — Reka http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html "I hate flowers – I paint them because they’re cheaper than models and they don’t move." –Georgia O’Keeffe | Now what? My wife is eager to learn more and start a collection, but | first how do we feed the regrowing plant?
Response:
Thanks for the prompt replies. Acting on the advice given, I found thumbtacked to the cork board in the greenhouse the tag that came with the plant. It is indeed a Phal named Best Decision, and on closer inspection the Phal is producing four light green tendrils (if that’s the word) from the base. Now what? My wife is eager to learn more and start a collection, but first how do we feed the regrowing plant? Should it be repotted and into what medium? Anything else, in basics, we should know? Alistair
Response:
Alistair, If you can provide a bit more information, we can be of more help. There are a lot of orchid growers out in the world who successfully "rebloom" their plants, but there is such a wide array of different species and hybrids that need different growing conditions, that one cannot possibly give a single, general suggestion. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A present for my wife in January last year, an orchid which retained its flowers for ten months. The stems have been left at about six inches; leaves quite healthy. Are we over-optimistic in expecting it to flower again or is this the end? Have no idea what name it goes under, but it was tall, stately, white with a pinkish tinge. Alistair
Response:
A present for my wife in January last year, an orchid which retained its flowers for ten months. The stems have been left at about six inches; leaves quite healthy. Are we over-optimistic in expecting it to flower again or is this the end? Have no idea what name it goes under, but it was tall, stately, white with a pinkish tinge. Alistair
Response:
Sounds like a Phal to me… Good advice from anybody out there??? Oh and they will probably want to know your growing conditions, watering regime etc… So any info you can provide will be of great assistance… Kye.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A present for my wife in January last year, an orchid which retained its flowers for ten months. The stems have been left at about six inches; leaves quite healthy. Are we over-optimistic in expecting it to flower again or is this the end? Have no idea what name it goes under, but it was tall, stately, white with a pinkish tinge. Alistair
Response:
Question:
The way you have described your plant doesn’t make me think any cinnamon, which can act effectively as a contact bacteriacide and fungicide, is necessarily warranted. You say the plant "didn’t look very happy", and now is dropping a lower leaf. Many severely stressed plants will drop the older leaves. They will typically yellow first, as you mentioned. If you aren’t seeing wet, mushy tissue at the bases of the leaves, the plant is probably not infected with anything that cinnamon, or any other agent, is needed for. It’s just stressed…most likely from lack of water. That doesn’t necessarily mean you should water it more. In fact, that may be how it got to the stressed condition… it was over-watered, causing root rot so now it can’t absorb adequate amounts of water. Bringing such a plant back from the brink of disaster involves very careful control of dampness at the roots (presuming there still are any), and high humidity to minimize water loss from the remaining leaves. If you are successful in getting new roots to grow, then you can slowly resume more normal watering practices and the plant will tolerate lower humidities since it can again absorb water effectively through its roots. How did the roots look when you repotted and what did you repot into? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am quite new to growing orchids and reading some of the posts it talks about using cinnamon in the leaf bases for rot. Can someone be more specific? Is that ground cinnamon and how much should be used and how often? I bought a phalaenopsis about 2 weeks ago which didn’t look very happy in the store and was marked down in price, and have repottted it, and now one of the bit bottom leaves is turning all yellow (just within a few days even). would cinnamon help? Sounds like bacterial rot or Phythophtora rot to me. I’d dump a bunch of cinnnamon in the leaf bases (all, not just the apparently affected ones) and hope a lot. Usually, with rapidly-proceeding rots, things are a lot farther along than you tend to realize. Find a copper-containing product (Phyton 27 is my choice, others use Kocide, etc.) and use it for prevention of these sorts of problems. Your new growing room sounds nice, but probably has optimized conditions not only for your plants, but also for their pathogens. Three leaves from my Phal developed large mushy areas at the base and then fell off — all within 24 hours. Luckily, three remain (its a large plant), but one is already showing signs of softness. I’m will cry if this dies!!!!! There have been are only two recent changes in its environment: 1) I broke off the spike 3 days ago in hopes of forcing another one. (Broke it in the right place…) It had been flowering for several months. 2) I had it sitting in a gravel bed, but DID NOT have a saucer underneath it. Although no water could have gotten directly into the pot, I guess evaporation could have traveled up the pot holes and to the roots. I do not water at night, and I’m careful about keeping it out of the base area. The roots, by the way, are abundant and extremely healthy looking. Please! Any ideas? Could this be a natural reaction to breaking the spike??? I’m heard about cutting away the rot and powdering with cinnamon….is it worth a try? Thanks for your help! D.
Response:
Thanks! I did the cinnamon thing last night, but just the affected area. I’ll go do the whole leaf when I’m done here. I hope to have purchased some Phyton 27 before lunch… Who?…me?…panic?!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds like bacterial rot or Phythophtora rot to me. I’d dump a bunch of cinnnamon in the leaf bases (all, not just the apparently affected ones) and hope a lot. Usually, with rapidly-proceeding rots, things are a lot farther along than you tend to realize. Find a copper-containing product (Phyton 27 is my choice, others use Kocide, etc.) and use it for prevention of these sorts of problems. Your new growing room sounds nice, but probably has optimized conditions not only for your plants, but also for their pathogens. Three leaves from my Phal developed large mushy areas at the base and then fell off — all within 24 hours. Luckily, three remain (its a large plant), but one is already showing signs of softness. I’m will cry if this dies!!!!! There have been are only two recent changes in its environment: 1) I broke off the spike 3 days ago in hopes of forcing another one. (Broke it in the right place…) It had been flowering for several months. 2) I had it sitting in a gravel bed, but DID NOT have a saucer underneath it. Although no water could have gotten directly into the pot, I guess evaporation could have traveled up the pot holes and to the roots. I do not water at night, and I’m careful about keeping it out of the base area. The roots, by the way, are abundant and extremely healthy looking. Please! Any ideas? Could this be a natural reaction to breaking the spike??? I’m heard about cutting away the rot and powdering with cinnamon….is it worth a try? Thanks for your help! D.
Response:
Point your browser to the URL below, and check out the "Free Information" link. Under it is a "Home Remedies" category that gives alternatives for cinnamon use. The loss of a low leaf is probably inconsequential, and cinnamon is a topical fungicide, not a systemic. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am quite new to growing orchids and reading some of the posts it talks about using cinnamon in the leaf bases for rot. Can someone be more specific? Is that ground cinnamon and how much should be used and how often? I bought a phalaenopsis about 2 weeks ago which didn’t look very happy in the store and was marked down in price, and have repottted it, and now one of the bit bottom leaves is turning all yellow (just within a few days even). would cinnamon help? Sounds like bacterial rot or Phythophtora rot to me. I’d dump a bunch of cinnnamon in the leaf bases (all, not just the apparently affected ones) and hope a lot. Usually, with rapidly-proceeding rots, things are a lot farther along than you tend to realize. Find a copper-containing product (Phyton 27 is my choice, others use Kocide, etc.) and use it for prevention of these sorts of problems. Your new growing room sounds nice, but probably has optimized conditions not only for your plants, but also for their pathogens. Three leaves from my Phal developed large mushy areas at the base and then fell off — all within 24 hours. Luckily, three remain (its a large plant), but one is already showing signs of softness. I’m will cry if this dies!!!!! There have been are only two recent changes in its environment: 1) I broke off the spike 3 days ago in hopes of forcing another one. (Broke it in the right place…) It had been flowering for several months. 2) I had it sitting in a gravel bed, but DID NOT have a saucer underneath it. Although no water could have gotten directly into the pot, I guess evaporation could have traveled up the pot holes and to the roots. I do not water at night, and I’m careful about keeping it out of the base area. The roots, by the way, are abundant and extremely healthy looking. Please! Any ideas? Could this be a natural reaction to breaking the spike??? I’m heard about cutting away the rot and powdering with cinnamon….is it worth a try? Thanks for your help! D.
Response:
I am quite new to growing orchids and reading some of the posts it talks about using cinnamon in the leaf bases for rot. Can someone be more specific? Is that ground cinnamon and how much should be used and how often? I bought a phalaenopsis about 2 weeks ago which didn’t look very happy in the store and was marked down in price, and have repottted it, and now one of the bit bottom leaves is turning all yellow (just within a few days even). would cinnamon help?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds like bacterial rot or Phythophtora rot to me. I’d dump a bunch of cinnnamon in the leaf bases (all, not just the apparently affected ones) and hope a lot. Usually, with rapidly-proceeding rots, things are a lot farther along than you tend to realize. Find a copper-containing product (Phyton 27 is my choice, others use Kocide, etc.) and use it for prevention of these sorts of problems. Your new growing room sounds nice, but probably has optimized conditions not only for your plants, but also for their pathogens. Three leaves from my Phal developed large mushy areas at the base and then fell off — all within 24 hours. Luckily, three remain (its a large plant), but one is already showing signs of softness. I’m will cry if this dies!!!!! There have been are only two recent changes in its environment: 1) I broke off the spike 3 days ago in hopes of forcing another one. (Broke it in the right place…) It had been flowering for several months. 2) I had it sitting in a gravel bed, but DID NOT have a saucer underneath it. Although no water could have gotten directly into the pot, I guess evaporation could have traveled up the pot holes and to the roots. I do not water at night, and I’m careful about keeping it out of the base area. The roots, by the way, are abundant and extremely healthy looking. Please! Any ideas? Could this be a natural reaction to breaking the spike??? I’m heard about cutting away the rot and powdering with cinnamon….is it worth a try? Thanks for your help! D.
Response:
Three leaves from my Phal developed large mushy areas at the base and then fell off — all within 24 hours. Luckily, three remain (its a large plant), but one is already showing signs of softness. I’m will cry if this dies!!!!! There have been are only two recent changes in its environment: 1) I broke off the spike 3 days ago in hopes of forcing another one. (Broke it in the right place…) It had been flowering for several months. 2) I had it sitting in a gravel bed, but DID NOT have a saucer underneath it. Although no water could have gotten directly into the pot, I guess evaporation could have traveled up the pot holes and to the roots. I do not water at night, and I’m careful about keeping it out of the base area. The roots, by the way, are abundant and extremely healthy looking. Please! Any ideas? Could this be a natural reaction to breaking the spike??? I’m heard about cutting away the rot and powdering with cinnamon….is it worth a try? Thanks for your help! D.
Response:
Sounds like bacterial rot or Phythophtora rot to me. I’d dump a bunch of cinnnamon in the leaf bases (all, not just the apparently affected ones) and hope a lot. Usually, with rapidly-proceeding rots, things are a lot farther along than you tend to realize. Find a copper-containing product (Phyton 27 is my choice, others use Kocide, etc.) and use it for prevention of these sorts of problems. Your new growing room sounds nice, but probably has optimized conditions not only for your plants, but also for their pathogens.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Three leaves from my Phal developed large mushy areas at the base and then fell off — all within 24 hours. Luckily, three remain (its a large plant), but one is already showing signs of softness. I’m will cry if this dies!!!!! There have been are only two recent changes in its environment: 1) I broke off the spike 3 days ago in hopes of forcing another one. (Broke it in the right place…) It had been flowering for several months. 2) I had it sitting in a gravel bed, but DID NOT have a saucer underneath it. Although no water could have gotten directly into the pot, I guess evaporation could have traveled up the pot holes and to the roots. I do not water at night, and I’m careful about keeping it out of the base area. The roots, by the way, are abundant and extremely healthy looking. Please! Any ideas? Could this be a natural reaction to breaking the spike??? I’m heard about cutting away the rot and powdering with cinnamon….is it worth a try? Thanks for your help! D.
Response:
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