The Orchid Garden

Lc. Mildred Rives

Question:

Now, if someone will tell me why a particular Miltoniopsis, with its perfect green/gray maybe I’ll try posting that question again.  No luck last time.

Hi Diana, What are the parents and what are your temperature ranges? I am not expert on these but I can ask around. Here in Houston it is a lack of cold nights that causes most people trouble with Miltonias and related intergenerics. The plants grow incredibly well, but just do not seem to want to bloom. Tom.

Response:

All the cattleya I know like about 75% to 80% of the full sun I get in my area.  "This type of cattleya" as I used the words it in the sentence below probably confused you.  If a cattleya has some Sophronitis species in it’s background I would have added one more *possible* reason why an apparently healthy plant would fail to bloom:  Sophronitis species seem to like cooler nights than the average cattleya and blooming of some of my Slc. hybrids seems to be triggered coolish nights.  Since Mildred does not have any Sophronitis species in her background (that she has admitted) I left this 4th reason off my list. Because there are five or six genera with countless species that can make up what we easily group together under the name "cattleya" or  it is sometimes hard to figure out which ancestor’s genes are telling it if conditions are right to bloom.  Some have short day bloom triggers, some long day and others are day neutral.  Some mature the bulb and then wait to bloom after a short or long dry period.  Some bloom even as the bulb is still maturing. Still others want a cool snap at night.  Some hybrids are kind of ‘conflicted’ in this area.  :-) It is this genetic ancestor stew that is probably responsible when I notice that one hybrid in my collection is never sure from bulb to bulb if it should be unifoliate or bifoliate.  Sometimes it makes only one leaf per bulb, sometimes two.  Another has trouble figuring out if it should go with the single sheath or the "sheath in a sheath" look and then every now and again it will just not growth a sheath but bloom without one. Some knowledge of species and how they grow is helpful but it does not always help you solve the mystery of why a hybrid does not bloom.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmm? I didn’t know this Al? Why the 80% sun? Is it because of the parentage? Which leads me to the fact that I can’t figure out the new RHS’s search page? Any help here? Cheers Wendy (6 ?’s *g*) I have this plant growing in full sun less 20% shade.  Their leaves are so bleached by the high light that they look yellow.  I fertilize plants using Peter’s 20-20-20 mixed in a fertilizer injector set to provide 150 ppm and I fertilize 3 out of every 4 times I water  Mine also grow two bulbs a year, but produce sheaths and bloom both spring and fall. I would think the three most common reason why this type of cattleya hybrid would fail to bloom are: 1:) it is not old enough yet. 2:) insufficient light levels.  Beautiful dark green leaves would indicate the light level is too low. 3:) insufficient fertilizer. These are my guesses anyway. I had Lc. Mildred Rives ‘Orchidglade’ AM/AOS  for a few years now. And all it does is grow a new leaf twice a year. The plant looks healty, but no sheath or flowers.  Any suggestions?

Response:

Hi Ray, Thanks for the comments on this. I guess it is best chalked up to personal experience for both of us. I do not have the magic answer, just sharing what I have observed over time. However, unless the roots have pushed medium out of the pot (nope), the amount of medium in the pot has not changed!  (Ignore decomposition breakdown for the moment.)  Instead, the roots have filled every possible void in the medium, which restricts the air flow throughout the medium, and voila! – wetter conditions.

That makes sense, but I am wondering if maybe this could be a medium issue causing our disagreement. For a very long time I used Bob Ehlert’s charcoal and perlite mix for most of my plants. That stuff is fairly grainy and comes out of the bottom of the pot over time. So in that case, I can testify to having potted out rootbound Cattleyas where there was very little medium left. 2-3" pots I would often find had maybe 20% volume of potting mix left. In the NZ sphag I use more now, what you report is more the case I would concede. The moss compresses I think, or just starts growing out of the pot too, and so there is not as much medium loss- although still some from fragments falling away during watering. I find that as bark breaks down it too slowly flows out of the pot with watering. Maybe only a few bits at a time, but with 80-120 watering a year, those few bits do add up. In any case, I really think the relationship between "potboundness" and blooming is more one of the degree to which the plant is "established," and not wet/dry conditions.

That could very well be true in a general sense regarding all orchids- in fact I would agree with it. I just find that the more potbound my plants, the more often they need watering since they dry out faster. And I attribute that somewhat to medium loss, but mainly to the fact that there are just a lot more roots to suck up the H2O. Tom.

Response:

Ray, Just a small aside here:  I recently repotted a bunch of stuff, and once more was struck by how the most pot-bound were the wettest, with only one exception.  They also had more roots that needed removal due to some rotting.  I know the danger of overpotting, but there are perils in severely underdoing it as well. I wrestled a pot bound Den out and the roots are so tight that I fear for the plant in the new media.  I guess it’ll sort itself out, though. Diana

Response:

Howdy! I’m not an expert and have no direct experience with this particular orchid. However … I have read and heard that the number one reason a cattleya that looks healthy won’t flower is a lack of light. I’ve read that cattleya can grow beautifully for years with light that is insufficient for the formation of flowers.  Also true of oncidiums, I hear. I have an unknown cattleya hybrid – which I think is a SLC – which looks great, but hasn’t flowered, ever.  This is it’s fourth year in my house.  It’s sitting alongside Lc Jungle Elf x Soph. cernua that blooms with every new growth.   Next to Bc Nok Noi and beside Bl Yellowbird, both of which bloom about twice a year.  It’s in a much brighter situation than a Wilsonara (Oda Red Cougar x Onc Riverwood) that also blooms off each new growth. I think they just like to tease us.  :-) I also have a question – If my unknown catt. hybrid has lots of Laelia in it parentage, could it’s reluctance, nay downright refusal, to bloom be either from too warm or too wet winter rests?  (Or both?) Anyone have a guess? Thanks in advance, Bob – Philadelphia, Pa – local society meeting this thursday (3-28) with an auction!

Response:

Thanks Al, Interesting…….So therefore when comparing a Catt. that blooms, we should speak of foot candles instead of % of shade, high & low temps etc?? Also then….Slc’s should be placed in a cooler part of the greenhouse, & not mingled in with the Lc’s, Blc’s, like mine are. Yes? Cheers Wendy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All the cattleya I know like about 75% to 80% of the full sun I get in my area.  "This type of cattleya" as I used the words it in the sentence below probably confused you.  If a cattleya has some Sophronitis species in it’s background I would have added one more *possible* reason why an apparently healthy plant would fail to bloom:  Sophronitis species seem to like cooler nights than the average cattleya and blooming of some of my Slc. hybrids seems to be triggered coolish nights.  Since Mildred does not have any Sophronitis species in her background (that she has admitted) I left this 4th reason off my list. Because there are five or six genera with countless species that can make up what we easily group together under the name "cattleya" or  it is sometimes hard to figure out which ancestor’s genes are telling it if conditions are right to bloom.  Some have short day bloom triggers, some long day and others are day neutral.  Some mature the bulb and then wait to bloom after a short or long dry period.  Some bloom even as the bulb is still maturing. Still others want a cool snap at night.  Some hybrids are kind of ‘conflicted’ in this area.  :-) It is this genetic ancestor stew that is probably responsible when I notice that one hybrid in my collection is never sure from bulb to bulb if it should be unifoliate or bifoliate.  Sometimes it makes only one leaf per bulb, sometimes two.  Another has trouble figuring out if it should go with the single sheath or the "sheath in a sheath" look and then every now and again it will just not growth a sheath but bloom without one. Some knowledge of species and how they grow is helpful but it does not always help you solve the mystery of why a hybrid does not bloom. Hmm? I didn’t know this Al? Why the 80% sun? Is it because of the parentage? Which leads me to the fact that I can’t figure out the new RHS’s search page? Any help here? Cheers Wendy (6 ?’s *g*) I have this plant growing in full sun less 20% shade.  Their leaves are so bleached by the high light that they look yellow.  I fertilize plants using Peter’s 20-20-20 mixed in a fertilizer injector set to provide 150 ppm and I fertilize 3 out of every 4 times I water  Mine also grow two bulbs a year, but produce sheaths and bloom both spring and fall. I would think the three most common reason why this type of cattleya hybrid would fail to bloom are: 1:) it is not old enough yet. 2:) insufficient light levels.  Beautiful dark green leaves would indicate the light level is too low. 3:) insufficient fertilizer. These are my guesses anyway.

Response:

OK, Tom, but now I’ll have to challenge the potbound = drier concept.  Seems to me that a potbound plant would tend to have wetter roots.  Consider this scenario: 1) Pot up a plant normally, with proper pot size, medium addition, etc. 2) The plant grows, putting out more and more roots as it does. 3) Ultimately the plant becomes potbound. However, unless the roots have pushed medium out of the pot (nope), the amount of medium in the pot has not changed!  (Ignore decomposition breakdown for the moment.)  Instead, the roots have filled every possible void in the medium, which restricts the air flow throughout the medium, and voila! – wetter conditions. If we now consider that in the time it has taken for the roots to grow that extensively we have also given the medium lots of time to begin decomposing, then the "wetter" concept is reinforced. On the other hand, the immense buildup of roots can also restrict the flow of water down through the medium, making it harder to reach all of the particles, so maybe that’s a good reason for your drier conditions. In any case, I really think the relationship between "potboundness" and blooming is more one of the degree to which the plant is "established," and not wet/dry conditions. In my observation, there are a couple of root-related factors that affect blooming (I am assuming it’s properly cared for in terms of environment and nutrition): a plant that has gotten a good grip (literally) on its surroundings will be a much better bloomer than a plant that has not yet grabbed hold of its mount – whether that be pot, basket, or slab. Hand-in-hand with that is the volume of roots produced, where more/bigger/better roots equals the same in blooming.  That second factor is really apparent in vandaceous plants grown attached to a wire with no root attachment to anything! — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now wait a minute, Tom.  Your comment "Cattleyas in nature grow in trees most of the time and do not have a lot of growing material nestled around the roots. Hence they like to be pot bound" sounds like a contradiction. And I thought "potbound" was referring to the restriction of space that the roots grow in, and had nothing to do with the presence of medium. Hi Ray, Well for starters this is my theory LOL. And it is not just based on orchids, but other plants I grow- namely bromeliads. The whole potbound issue to me speaks to the matter of wetness of the roots. The more potbound a plant, the faster it will dry out since there are more roots to absorb water and less medium to retain moisture. Hence my theory. I look more at the perspective of the roots and the presence of water as opposed to the physical reality of the roots being exposed to the air. Tom.

Response:

Now wait a minute, Tom.  Your comment "Cattleyas in nature grow in trees most of the time and do not have a lot of growing material nestled around the roots. Hence they like to be pot bound" sounds like a contradiction. And I thought "potbound" was referring to the restriction of space that the roots grow in, and had nothing to do with the presence of medium.

Hi Ray, Well for starters this is my theory LOL. And it is not just based on orchids, but other plants I grow- namely bromeliads. The whole potbound issue to me speaks to the matter of wetness of the roots. The more potbound a plant, the faster it will dry out since there are more roots to absorb water and less medium to retain moisture. Hence my theory. I look more at the perspective of the roots and the presence of water as opposed to the physical reality of the roots being exposed to the air. Tom.

Response:

For more answers to those pertinent questions, see my later post. Diana

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now, if someone will tell me why a particular Miltoniopsis, with its perfect green/gray maybe I’ll try posting that question again.  No luck last time. Hi Diana, What are the parents and what are your temperature ranges? I am not expert on these but I can ask around. Here in Houston it is a lack of cold nights that causes most people trouble with Miltonias and related intergenerics. The plants grow incredibly well, but just do not seem to want to bloom. Tom.

Response:

Now wait a minute, Tom.  Your comment "Cattleyas in nature grow in trees most of the time and do not have a lot of growing material nestled around the roots. Hence they like to be pot bound" sounds like a contradiction.  If they are in trees with little to no medium, their roots are not restricted in any way, so are the epitome of NOT potbound. And I thought "potbound" was referring to the restriction of space that the roots grow in, and had nothing to do with the presence of medium. — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why is it that orchids just don’t work like normal houseplants? The more rootbound… the more the plant spits out blooms. In houseplants energy is either going into roots, or top growth.. not both. This rule applies to the strongly ephytitic orchids (hope I spelled that right LOL.) Cattleyas in nature grow in trees most of the time and do not have a lot of growing material nestled around the roots. Hence they like to be pot bound. Vandas are even more extreme. It is very difficult to get optimum results growing adult plants in bark or some other medium. Not impossible, but hard to get the best results achieveable. The roots need to dry out between waterings and the more mix is in there, the harder it is to achieve that. Phals and Paphs are more forgiving of being overpotted since, while they also grow in the air, they often tend to grow in spots where there is some trapped medium in the trees. Not always, but in general that tends to be true. Paphs for example like forks in tree branches where dead leaves and other things accumulate. Also, these two genera grow in regions that are very moist, so they can handle- and prefer- the constant wetness offered by being in a pot with lots of growing material. Tom.

Response:

Okay, I’ll bite.  So why do I still see Catts (albeit Lcs or Bcs) with DARK green leaves coming from vendors?  Is that the Brassavola or Laelia influence???  And they don’t seem to lighten up, either? — Reka http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html "I hate flowers – I paint them because they’re cheaper than models and they don’t move."        –Georgia O’Keeffe Cattleya bloom better if they are getting a light | level sufficient to cause the leaves to tend toward a paler shade of green.

Response:

Why is it that orchids just don’t work like normal houseplants? The more rootbound… the more the plant spits out blooms. In houseplants energy is either going into roots, or top growth.. not both.

This rule applies to the strongly ephytitic orchids (hope I spelled that right LOL.) Cattleyas in nature grow in trees most of the time and do not have a lot of growing material nestled around the roots. Hence they like to be pot bound. Vandas are even more extreme. It is very difficult to get optimum results growing adult plants in bark or some other medium. Not impossible, but hard to get the best results achieveable. The roots need to dry out between waterings and the more mix is in there, the harder it is to achieve that. Phals and Paphs are more forgiving of being overpotted since, while they also grow in the air, they often tend to grow in spots where there is some trapped medium in the trees. Not always, but in general that tends to be true. Paphs for example like forks in tree branches where dead leaves and other things accumulate. Also, these two genera grow in regions that are very moist, so they can handle- and prefer- the constant wetness offered by being in a pot with lots of growing material. Tom.

Response:

Okay, I’ll bite.  So why do I still see Catts (albeit Lcs or Bcs) with DARK green leaves coming from vendors?  Is that the Brassavola or Laelia influence???  And they don’t seem to lighten up, either?

Hi Reka, Parentage can play a big role. There are no hard rules, but in general it is a good bet that the darker the flower color, the darker the pigmentation of the plant overall. It is rarer in Cattleyas than Phals and Paphs, but I have seen many Catts with strong purple streaking in the leaves and very deep green color that were being properly grown and given enough light. It is not a sign of insufficient light really, but just of the pigment in the plants. In fact, it is often good to go for these plants when you choose seedlings if you are looking for more intense colors. It is not a sure thing, but one more way to stack the odds in your favor It just takes time really. Once you see a lot of plants it all starts to make sense. With Cattleyas I often look at the pseudobulbs to get hints about light. Shorter newer growths and/or smaller leaves can be as much of a tip-off as the foliage color when it comes to determining if the plants are getting enough light. Tom.

Response:

I had Lc. Mildred Rives

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