The Orchid Garden

Orchid Shopping in San Francisco

Question:

hi there, i was in sf and stayed at a friend’s place, and i was actually shopping for orchids as a housewarming present, after some search I found some not so great looking ones at coles hardware, and the guy was kind enough to guide me to a small green house in "daly city", another 20 min south, when i got there, the door was half shut, i entered the door and nobody is around, i saw a table of nice looking blooming white phals that i couldn’t buy, if you go down to central california you will find bigger shops ended up buying some rose bushes at home depo… plants in cali are generally more healthy looking, even at places like home depo have a nice time and do bring a jacket w

Response:

Hi,I hope I’m not ‘double posting’,lost my first message in the click of a wrong button! Hi Scott,I work at the McLellan store in San Mateo,and the reason the quality of the orchids might not be up to excellent standards at the SF store,is that it is also the wholesale outlet.Those folks are let in first[3 am some mornings!]before retail,and from I’ve heard,pretty much wipe out the store! As for the bad advice,I’ve sure it was that employees belief that their advice was correct..I’ve learned one thing in the last couple of years to know there is usually never a totally ‘right’ answer As for the Ludisia,hmmmm,we had 4 to 5 growths for sale at our store for 30.00,they were gone before the week is up! I can’t answer that one. You can’t believe the complaining and wringing of the hands I’ve endured from folks about moving from the ‘old’ place.As I’m sure you know Scott,land in the Bay Area is very valuable.The company was doing most of the growing on over 100 acres down south in Aromas since the ’60’s.When the state wanted to the company to ‘earthquake’proof all the buildings and greenhouses[at at least 200 mil],it was decided that that was time to leave.Houses are being built up there so fast now,at 400k a pop! Come down to Aromas the weekend of the 18th&19th,our open house will be there,and there will be tours through the greenhouses,[have over 200 acres now!]and on the way stop in and say hi to me at the San Mateo store[and check out our plants too!] Kim

Response:

I agree with Scott, McLellan’s has gone downhill and now only sells plants that they buy from other growers or Taiwan. Generally some run of the mill stuff or if they have anything interesting they probably got it from another local vendor. So why not get it direct from the source?

Do you know this for sure or just talking off the top of your head? Rod McLellan’s staff has told me that they still maintain nurseries in San Mateo. They still grow them from flasks, etc. At the San Mateo store, they even show videos of their operations. So where do you get the idea that RM only sells other people’s stuff? — To reply, remove ".out".

Response:

Well,the greenhouses are in Aromas,and we do still do some breeding,but the lab has closed in San Mateo.We will do some off site breeding,[got a new grower from Holland doing some new hybrids of Cyms]but you have to remember,RMC is ‘mostly’ wholesale,it’s at least 90% of the orchid business for the company.But even so,I think[as do alot of people worldwide]we have some of the best plants,even if they are ‘only’ phals,dens. and onc. Not every orchid company can cater to species or one of a kinds.Even so,we had some fantastic plants in our store last week,and I’ve got some ‘killer’ Raymond Burr Catts.that were on the floor just a few months ago. So my point is,unless you visit a store more than once or twice,it’s not fair to judge,is your house clean 24 -7? Kim

Response:

From the people that sell them their stuff!! K Barrett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree with Scott, McLellan’s has gone downhill and now only sells plants that they buy from other growers or Taiwan. Generally some run of the mill stuff or if they have anything interesting they probably got it from another local vendor. So why not get it direct from the source? Do you know this for sure or just talking off the top of your head? Rod McLellan’s staff has told me that they still maintain nurseries in San Mateo. They still grow them from flasks, etc. At the San Mateo store, they even show videos of their operations. So where do you get the idea that RM only sells other people’s stuff? — To reply, remove ".out".

Response:

From the people that sell them their stuff!! K Barrett So where do you get the idea that RM only sells other people’s stuff?

And we’ve learned since, from RM, that RM still develops a small percentage of the orchids it sells. Less than before, but not all their stuff comes from other people. — To reply, remove ".out".

Response:

Hi Scott,I work at the McLellan store in San Mateo,and the reason the quality of the orchids might not be up to excellent standards at the SF store,is that it is also the wholesale outlet.Those folks are let in first[3 am some mornings!]before retail,and from I’ve heard,pretty much wipe out the store! As for the bad advice,I’ve sure it was that employees belief that their advice was correct..I’ve learned one thing in the last couple of years to know there is usually never a totally ‘right’ answer

I visited all three RM places on Saturday, as well as some other orchid places.  Here’s the take of someone new to orchids, but not to plants: The selection at RM was somewhat limited and the place did seem to cater to the novel buyer.  This is not a bad thing, just the way it is.  You will not find weird and interesting species in abundance (there were a few in the Mateo store), but the plants that are offered seem to be inline with what the average orchid owner wants.  Very healthy, large showy plants with nice blooms.  Not for nothing – I thought the price, for the plant you were getting was very good. There is a difference in price for the same items between the stores.  One would think that there should not be – but there is.  I suspect that this may reflect how close to the center of the city you are.  The Hickey Street store and the Mateo store were comparable, but most of the Stuff at the Flower Market was more expensive by 3-5 dollars per plant.  There were some cheaper items, but these were fewer in number.  The plants were also not as nice – of course the public gets to them only after the wholesale folks buy that morning – so this is not surprising. Advice:  The folks in the Mateo store (where you can see the lab – my favorite part of the trip) gave some excellent advice to me and the several other customer in the store (OK I eavesdropped – so sue me I was working on my learning curve as well!).  The people in the flower mart were not too interested in answering questions of helping make decisions.  I suspect that they are more used to dealing with a knowledgable crowd of buyers.  The advice at the Hickey store was very hit or miss – e.g when asking about the cultural differences between several genera the young woman at the desk suggested that all orchids needed bright light, and that their care was essentially the same.  Now the folks at the Mateo store went into quite a bit of detail, cheerfully gave me directions to the other stores and seemed very knowledgable.  All in all it was a better "expereince" at the Mateo store. Outside souces of plants:  Don’t know about this but the flask room at the Mateo store was large, impressive, and well stocked (Of course I have not been in many flask rooms in my life – but I thought it was nifty nonetheless) and best of all – you could see into all of the areas – nothing was hidden away. Would I shop there again?  Yup – I got what I wanted, paid what I thought was a fair price, and had an otherwise enjoyable day roaming SF. Keith — Keith G. Benson DVM Resident, Zoological Medicine Service University of California-Davis Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital www.geocities.com/rainforest/2011

Response:

[Much Snipped, sorry!] Advice:  The folks in the Mateo store (where you can see the lab – my favorite part of the trip) gave some excellent advice to me and the several other customer in the store (OK I eavesdropped – so sue me I was working on my learning curve as well!).  The people in the flower mart were not too

I have heard thru a reliable source that the lab will soon be a thing of the past. They are going to start contracting their work out overseas. A shame. Some valuable PEOPLE are going to be without jobs. It’s a shame that the bottom line has to rule so many companies. I’ve heard no "evidence" that keeping the lab would endanger the business. They just wanna save money. Ah well. Off my soapbox….-Rod- Rod & Susan Venger, Venger’s Orchids http://www.vengers.com/ Our IRC (Chat info) http://www.vengers.com/page.htm

Response:

We are thinking of heading to the Bay area in October.  Are there some good places we should be sure not to miss to purchase orchids?  Carol

 Hi, Carol,      First, please allow me to appologise for my neighbors. You see, This is the Silicon Valley…home of the most educated, and equally unintelligent people on the earth. I won’t launch into a diatribe on the subject just now…but I WILL wxplain to you why you received the responses that you did.      When you said " Are there any good places to shop for orchids?"      They heard " Are there any orchid shops you would like me to blow-up?" But then, I said no diatribe didn’t I?      But anyway, Rod Mclellon’s San mateo store is a fine place, a clean, well lighted, freindly and knowledgable place. But I get the feeling that a store isn’t what you had in mind. You said San Francisco. Are you hoteling there, and want to plan an adventure of sorts away from the city?      There are several greenhouses around that I would like to see myself, but the hours of operation and/or restrictions on appointments are usually designed to be prohibitive,in my opinion.      You can find a list of growers and venders several places on the internet though, you might start with the orchidmall, or the American Orchid Society web page.                                         Please enjoy "The City"                                         it’s such a freindly place!                                             "Connie" Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Connie & all—WOW!  I didn’t know that the BAY area orchid growing/shopping was so political!  Not surprising—I live in DC area after all.   We will be staying in the city for a few days, and will have a car and be driving around the Bay area quite a bit.  So I thought if there were some particularly good places—that I would go check them out.   We will go up Sonoma way, and maybe as far south as Monterey.  So if you have a list of your favorite growers—I will check them out.   Carol – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Carol,     First, please allow me to appologise for my neighbors. You see, This is the Silicon Valley…home of the most educated, and equally unintelligent people on the earth. I won’t launch into a diatribe on the subject just now…but I WILL wxplain to you why you received the responses that you did.

Response:

Yep Rod,it’s true about the lab closing down,two people lost their jobs.But you have to remember,the land that was sold was ‘family’land,not the business,so the money from that sale did NOT go back into the company. RMC also makes ‘SuperSoil’,best selling potting soil on the West Coast. Plus,the opening of two retail shops,just for retail,costs were astronomical. Down at the greenhouses,some ’stuff’ is being done,but I’m not privy to it[and I think that is how it should be] The Rod McLellan Company is one of the largest ‘wholesalers’out there,so to ’specialize’,or do alot of breeding is counterproductive. I happen to love species and strange hybrids,but thousands of other just want a high quality Den or Phal or Onc or Phap or Milt….ect I happen to think the RMC is great,has some flaws[like us all]and not just cuz I work there! ))) Kim

Response:

Carol, well, since you’ll be mobile and you ask for favorites you should definitely see Petite Plaissance they are on the Orchid Mall. The owners aer great guys, very friendly and knowledgeable. They are West of Petaluma in the rolling hills, quite a nice drive!! They grow species, all easily grown, no real twitchy plants and have a wonderful variety. I already told you about Sunset, Orchidanica, Golden Gate and Fordyce. Down near Monterey… Hmmm… I seem to recall someone near Gilroy who advertises in the AOS mag, at 1 Noname place… too bad the Orchid Zone doesn’t let people drop by and browse, but they are around Gilroy. Jerry Rodder of Jerry’s Grow is in the greater Palo Alto area, you might be able to buy fertilizer direct if you call/email and ask. He’s a trip. K Barrett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Connie & all—WOW!  I didn’t know that the BAY area orchid growing/shopping was so political!  Not surprising—I live in DC area after all.   We will be staying in the city for a few days, and will have a car and be driving around the Bay area quite a bit.  So I thought if there were some particularly good places—that I would go check them out.   We will go up Sonoma way, and maybe as far south as Monterey.  So if you have a list of your favorite growers—I will check them out.   Carol Hi, Carol,     First, please allow me to appologise for my neighbors. You see, This is the Silicon Valley…home of the most educated, and equally unintelligent people on the earth. I won’t launch into a diatribe on the subject just now…but I WILL wxplain to you why you received the responses that you did.

Response:

Probably the most famous place is The Rod McLellan Company. I’ve been told that it was much like the Orchid Jungle, in that it was as much a tourist attraction as it was an orchid nursery. But that has not lasted. I was recently in the area on business and went by to take a look. The S. San Fran store has become a retail shop. The nursery is no longer open to the public. Their HQ is in San Mateo – I don’t know what that is like.

See my previous message. Rod McLellan has always had a shop in the SF Flower Mart. The South San Francisco facility was sold a while ago, and RM relocated their main store to San Mateo. There is a smaller shop in Colma too. — To reply, remove ".out".

Response:

I live in the Bay Area, and have only visited the McClellan shop at the SF flower shop once. I was dissapointed to say the least. Not only did I find the plants mediocre and overpriced ($35 for a single growth Ludisia??!!), but the folks at the counter were giving bad info to a newbie customer (saying that exudence on the undersides of leaves meant she was stressing the plant). I would’ve stayed around to correct/argue with them, but folks who know what Friday Bay area traffic is like knows why I did not : ) Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are thinking of heading to the Bay area in October.  Are there some good places we should be sure not to miss to purchase orchids?  Carol The Bay Area is a big place as you know. Where will you be based, and how far are you willing to travel? In San Francisco, Rod McClellan at the SF Flower Mart is worth a visit. They don’t usually have anything exotic but their plants tend to be very healthy. — To reply, remove ".out".

Response:

I agree with Scott, McLellan’s has gone downhill and now only sells plants that they buy from other growers or Taiwan. Generally some run of the mill stuff or if they have anything interesting they probably got it from another local vendor. So why not get it direct from the source? Most places are open by appointment only, however I just came back from Steve Gettel’s Sunset Orchids and had a wonderful tour there. Of course I spent too much, but what else would an addict say?? (650) 994-9049. Play phone tag, but its worth it. Also Golden Gate Orchids is not open to the public at all, but you just might luck out. Tom Perlite opens the GH for local society tours and you might be able to tag along with one of those IF he has one scheduled for the weekend you are in town. Ask politely, don’t whine and he might let you in. (415) 467-3737. Larry Moskovitz’ Orchidanica is also open by appointment. (510) 482-0408. His ramshackle GHs in San Leandro house some wonderful species, and I think he might actually have a sale going. He’s also on the OrchidMall. Of course the Orchid Ranch in Livermore is open all the time. (Tonkins paphiopedilums is only open Fri, Sat Sun though) (925) 447-1659. They house Fordyce Orchids and Orchids Orinda (phals). So you see, the Bay area is a large place and we drive alot to get what we want. Hope this helps K Barrett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in the Bay Area, and have only visited the McClellan shop at the SF flower shop once. I was dissapointed to say the least. Not only did I find the plants mediocre and overpriced ($35 for a single growth Ludisia??!!), but the folks at the counter were giving bad info to a newbie customer (saying that exudence on the undersides of leaves meant she was stressing the plant). I would’ve stayed around to correct/argue with them, but folks who know what Friday Bay area traffic is like knows why I did not : ) Scott We are thinking of heading to the Bay area in October.  Are there some good places we should be sure not to miss to purchase orchids?  Carol The Bay Area is a big place as you know. Where will you be based, and how far are you willing to travel? In San Francisco, Rod McClellan at the SF Flower Mart is worth a visit. They don’t usually have anything exotic but their plants tend to be very healthy. — To reply, remove ".out".

Response:

We are thinking of heading to the Bay area in October.  Are there some good places we should be sure not to miss to purchase orchids?  Carol

Response:

We are thinking of heading to the Bay area in October.  Are there some good places we should be sure not to miss to purchase orchids?  Carol

The Bay Area is a big place as you know. Where will you be based, and how far are you willing to travel? In San Francisco, Rod McClellan at the SF Flower Mart is worth a visit. They don’t usually have anything exotic but their plants tend to be very healthy. — To reply, remove ".out".

Response:

Probably the most famous place is The Rod McLellan Company. I’ve been told that it was much like the Orchid Jungle, in that it was as much a tourist attraction as it was an orchid nursery. But that has not lasted. I was recently in the area on business and went by to take a look. The S. San Fran store has become a retail shop. The nursery is no longer open to the public. Their HQ is in San Mateo – I don’t know what that is like. Spend time in the city. See the Embarcadero, Chinatown, North Shore; if you want an orchid from the McLellan Co., mail-order it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are thinking of heading to the Bay area in October.  Are there some good places we should be sure not to miss to purchase orchids?  Carol

Response:

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