The Orchid Garden » Orchid Plants

Hydrogen peroxide as miticide?

admin — Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I stand corrected. I owe you a plate of Green Eggs and Ham!!! –Glenn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Horton, dear Glenn, not Grinch! Reka (mother of two) (I may not be up on Monty Python, but I know my Dr. Seuss!) glenn schrieb: Listen very closely. It could be the people of Whoville. You wouldn’t want to turn out to be their Grinch!!! Glenn I’ll get out a magnifying glass and see what I can see. Hope it’s not a whole village and I end up looking into one of their windows! Rick~

Response:

Sunny side up, please! Reka glenn schrieb: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I stand corrected. I owe you a plate of Green Eggs and Ham!!! –Glenn

Response:

I have just reread this thread and I don’t see anywhere where someone says that a 3% solution of hydrogen peroxide is a good miticide and definitely works. As has been said, mites don’t like water and is this being sprayed on the plants deterring them. As far as mites go, I wouldn’t waste time looking for them in the substrate, they will be on the foliage and if you get a really heavy infestation, they will completely encapsulate portions of the foliage with their webs. A fine mist of water will show off the webbing really well. I have found that they like soft foliaged plants over hard foliage but they will get on almost anything. I have had them on cactus. A small pocket loop(sp) is the best thing to look for them. Check for speckling on soft foliaged plants where they puncture the cells and kill them. Thanks for anymore info on Hydrogen Peroxide Stephen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the inf.. Al Rick~ Spider mites are visible to the naked eye. Just barely. You can see their damage and their dust (read do-do) even more easily. And spider mites make a fine webbing that they use to move around on and cling too. You can shake a plant suspected of spider mites over to piece of white paper and the some of the dust that falls onto it will attempt to crawl away. These would be the mites. There are other species of mites, lots in fact, that are truly microscopic and can not be seen without a visual aide. These you learn to recognize solely by their damage. The university of Florida website’s horticulture department had a no-chemical treatment for mites posted at one point. Don’t know if it still there. You can submerge the plant in very warm water for three or four minutes and this will kill most mites. I have read in many different places the temperature of this death bath listed at various degrees between 100 and 120 Fahrenheit. 120 degrees is pretty hot, in my opinion, and it made my hand numb and red to hold Phal plants submerged for three minutes. But they survived and showed no signs of damage. The mites did not. I don’t know if this would be true for all types of orchid plants. Phals have pretty thick leaves. It is entertaining to watch a Phal ‘boil’ in 120 degree water as the gas in the upper tissue layers of the leaf expand and it sheds a thin waxy layer of something while a fine stream of bubbles is squeezed out of every pore on it’s epidermis and rises to the surface in a fine continual stream that break the surface like little tiny screams for mercy. Al I wonder if you have spidermites Rick? Someone please correct me if I am wrong but supposedly they can’t be seen (too small) ?? The only thing you see is the damage done to the plant? Cheers Wendy | Do you just apply it full strength over the entire soil area or dilute it | with water? | Think it would work with my Catteytonia Why Not? | Noticed I have a fed little buggers crawling around last time I watered on | Tuesday! | Rick~

Response:

Hi, I am certainly nowhere near as smart as most of you are on orchids but I do know how to listen. When Alan Koch owner of Gold Country spoketo our group a year ago he allowed that he doused all orchids in peroxide at deflasking and everything again about every 2-3 weeks. He bought the stuff by the barrel. I held my breath and cringed the firsttime I dumped a bottle of peroxide on a new compot of catts and in the morning instead of dead little things they looked perky and happy. I gothrough a lot of peroxide now and have had very good luck with it for everything fom mold(one flask I bought had to be deflasked VERY early due to molding) on, Can’t say if it works for mealy bugs or scale but my babies sure thrive.It is supposed to be greast for cases of crown rot and algea also. Just passing on what I have been told and what I have tried….and…no, it was striaght out of the bottle not dituled.Hope this helps someone else.Anita

Response:

Horton, dear Glenn, not Grinch! Reka (mother of two) (I may not be up on Monty Python, but I know my Dr. Seuss!) glenn schrieb: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Listen very closely. It could be the people of Whoville. You wouldn’t want to turn out to be their Grinch!!! Glenn I’ll get out a magnifying glass and see what I can see. Hope it’s not a whole village and I end up looking into one of their windows! Rick~

Response:

Spider mites are visible to the naked eye. Just barely. You can see their damage and their dust (read do-do) even more easily. And spider mites make a fine webbing that they use to move around on and cling too. You can shake a plant suspected of spider mites over to piece of white paper and the some of the dust that falls onto it will attempt to crawl away. These would be the mites. There are other species of mites, lots in fact, that are truly microscopic and can not be seen without a visual aide. These you learn to recognize solely by their damage. The university of Florida website’s horticulture department had a no-chemical treatment for mites posted at one point. Don’t know if it still there. You can submerge the plant in very warm water for three or four minutes and this will kill most mites. I have read in many different places the temperature of this death bath listed at various degrees between 100 and 120 Fahrenheit. 120 degrees is pretty hot, in my opinion, and it made my hand numb and red to hold Phal plants submerged for three minutes. But they survived and showed no signs of damage. The mites did not. I don’t know if this would be true for all types of orchid plants. Phals have pretty thick leaves. It is entertaining to watch a Phal ‘boil’ in 120 degree water as the gas in the upper tissue layers of the leaf expand and it sheds a thin waxy layer of something while a fine stream of bubbles is squeezed out of every pore on it’s epidermis and rises to the surface in a fine continual stream that break the surface like little tiny screams for mercy. Al

I wonder if you have spidermites Rick? Someone please correct me if I am wrong but supposedly they can’t be seen (too small) ?? The only thing you see is the damage done to the plant? Cheers Wendy

Response:

Listen very closely. It could be the people of Whoville. You wouldn’t want to turn out to be their Grinch!!! Glenn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do admit that my eyes are not as they were when I was in my teens, but I am able to catch a glimpse of something crawling around in the dirt/moss. I’ll get out a magnifying glass and see what I can see. Hope it’s not a whole village and I end up looking into one of their windows! Rick~ I wonder if you have spidermites Rick? Someone please correct me if I am wrong but supposedly they can’t be seen (too small) ?? The only thing you see is the damage done to the plant? Cheers Wendy | Do you just apply it full strength over the entire soil area or dilute it | with water? | Think it would work with my Catteytonia Why Not? | Noticed I have a fed little buggers crawling around last time I watered on | Tuesday! | Rick~ | | I use it all the time on my regular house plants. Works | like a charm. Been lucky with the orchids, no outbreaks. | | Crystal | | — | The best reading, is reading between the lines. | _ | | | Hi all, | While researching environmentally friendly miticides to knock down a | spider mite infestation before getting the predators in to finish the | job, in addition to the usual hort oils and soaps I was intrigued to | find 3% hydrogen peroxide recommended as a miticide and particularly an | ovicide. Has anybody heard of this or tried it? Sounded too easy to be | true to me…do you suppose the bubbles tickle them to death? I’ve | heard of using peroxide as a bactericide, but not as a bugicide. | Cheers, | Sue Austin | in unbelievably buggy Ipswich, where the deerflies are the size of | helicopters, the mosquitoes can carry away small dogs and the dreaded | greenheads are only a week away…ah, the joys of summer! | | | | — | Posted from chmls05.mediaone.net [24.147.1.143] | via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG | | | |

Response:

Er… that will teach me to post late at night. You guys are right to question me. The products in the store contain .25% of peroxide… thank goodness I pulled out my handy cheat sheet. That’s why when I ran out I was just using one or 2 drops per gallon. I use 2, but I like to err on the light side until I know everything is okay. So the calculation that Dale says sounds about right. Sorry guys… you can all kick me now. Crystal — The best reading, is reading between the lines. _

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No…. don’t use full strength. I only use like 1 or 2 drops per gallon. I figure that works out to about 3%. eh? The H2O2 available at the drug store is already diluted to 3%. I believe that is what Rick was referring to when he asked "just use full strength?" As such, the answer to his question is an obvious "yes." -Dave-

Response:

Thanks for the inf.. Al Rick~

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Spider mites are visible to the naked eye. Just barely. You can see their damage and their dust (read do-do) even more easily. And spider mites make a fine webbing that they use to move around on and cling too. You can shake a plant suspected of spider mites over to piece of white paper and the some of the dust that falls onto it will attempt to crawl away. These would be the mites. There are other species of mites, lots in fact, that are truly microscopic and can not be seen without a visual aide. These you learn to recognize solely by their damage. The university of Florida website’s horticulture department had a no-chemical treatment for mites posted at one point. Don’t know if it still there. You can submerge the plant in very warm water for three or four minutes and this will kill most mites. I have read in many different places the temperature of this death bath listed at various degrees between 100 and 120 Fahrenheit. 120 degrees is pretty hot, in my opinion, and it made my hand numb and red to hold Phal plants submerged for three minutes. But they survived and showed no signs of damage. The mites did not. I don’t know if this would be true for all types of orchid plants. Phals have pretty thick leaves. It is entertaining to watch a Phal ‘boil’ in 120 degree water as the gas in the upper tissue layers of the leaf expand and it sheds a thin waxy layer of something while a fine stream of bubbles is squeezed out of every pore on it’s epidermis and rises to the surface in a fine continual stream that break the surface like little tiny screams for mercy. Al I wonder if you have spidermites Rick? Someone please correct me if I am wrong but supposedly they can’t be seen (too small) ?? The only thing you see is the damage done to the plant? Cheers Wendy | Do you just apply it full strength over the entire soil area or dilute it | with water? | Think it would work with my Catteytonia Why Not? | Noticed I have a fed little buggers crawling around last time I watered on | Tuesday! | Rick~

Response:

Thanks Dave and Crystal, I was questioning the use of drug store peroxide being diluted even more than it is. I’ll give it a try and see if these little buggers enjoy it. Any recommendations on the amount to use verses the size of the plant or just dump a pint on the guys and let it run through? Thanks for all the inf.. Rick~

Response:

I do admit that my eyes are not as they were when I was in my teens, but I am able to catch a glimpse of something crawling around in the dirt/moss. I’ll get out a magnifying glass and see what I can see. Hope it’s not a whole village and I end up looking into one of their windows! Rick~

I wonder if you have spidermites Rick? Someone please correct me if I am wrong but supposedly they can’t be seen (too small) ?? The only thing you see is the damage done to the plant? Cheers Wendy

| I use it all the time on my regular house plants. Works | like a charm. Been lucky with the orchids, no outbreaks. | | Crystal | | — | The best reading, is reading between the lines. | _ | | | Hi all, | While researching environmentally friendly miticides to knock down a | spider mite infestation before getting the predators in to finish the | job, in addition to the usual hort oils and soaps I was intrigued to | find 3% hydrogen peroxide recommended as a miticide and particularly an | ovicide. Has anybody heard of this or tried it? Sounded too easy to be | true to me…do you suppose the bubbles tickle them to death? I’ve | heard of using peroxide as a bactericide, but not as a bugicide. | Cheers, | Sue Austin | in unbelievably buggy Ipswich, where the deerflies are the size of | helicopters, the mosquitoes can carry away small dogs and the dreaded | greenheads are only a week away…ah, the joys of summer! | | | | — | Posted from chmls05.mediaone.net [24.147.1.143] | via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG | | | |

Response:

: ……My trusty converter tells me there are 116739+ drops per gallon; Oops. The above number is for 2 gallons…. One US gallon only has 58369.6486175 drops.

Thanks for the correction; we wouldn’t want to dump 1.5% solution on those pesky mites, now would we? -DAve-

Response:

The stuff purchased from a drug store is 3% as-is. If you add 2 drops of that to water, you’ll end up with 0.0001%! Heck, even if you could get 100% hydrogen peroxide – I think 70% is the highest commercial concentration, and you don’t want to be fooling with that – 1 or 2 drops per gallon is only 0.0017% or 0.0034%. — Ray Barkalow –<– First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No…. don’t use full strength. I only use like 1 or 2 drops per gallon. I figure that works out to about 3%. There are products on the market that already have this mixture. I don’t want to be responsible for hurting anyone’s babies. Crystal — The best reading, is reading between the lines. _ Do you just apply it full strength over the entire soil area or dilute it with water? Think it would work with my Catteytonia Why Not? Noticed I have a fed little buggers crawling around last time I watered on Tuesday! Rick~ I use it all the time on my regular house plants. Works like a charm. Been lucky with the orchids, no outbreaks. Crystal — The best reading, is reading between the lines. _ Hi all, While researching environmentally friendly miticides to knock down a spider mite infestation before getting the predators in to finish the job, in addition to the usual hort oils and soaps I was intrigued to find 3% hydrogen peroxide recommended as a miticide and particularly an ovicide. Has anybody heard of this or tried it? Sounded too easy to be true to me…do you suppose the bubbles tickle them to death? I’ve heard of using peroxide as a bactericide, but not as a bugicide. Cheers, Sue Austin in unbelievably buggy Ipswich, where the deerflies are the size of helicopters, the mosquitoes can carry away small dogs and the dreaded greenheads are only a week away…ah, the joys of summer! — Posted from chmls05.mediaone.net [24.147.1.143] via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Response:

: ……My trusty converter tells me there are 116739+ drops per gallon; Oops. The above number is for 2 gallons…. One US gallon only has 58369.6486175 drops.

Response:

I wonder if you have spidermites Rick? Someone please correct me if I am wrong but supposedly they can’t be seen (too small) ?? The only thing you see is the damage done to the plant? Cheers Wendy

Response:

: No…. don’t use full strength. I only use like 1 or 2 drops : per gallon. I figure that works out to about 3%. There : are products on the market that already have this : mixture. I don’t want to be responsible for hurting : anyone’s babies. Hmmm. My trusty converter tells me there are 116739+ drops per gallon; of course that depends on viscosity. That means at your maximum dilution rate, you’re applying .0017% hydrogen peroxide

Response:

No…. don’t use full strength. I only use like 1 or 2 drops per gallon. I figure that works out to about 3%.

eh? The H2O2 available at the drug store is already diluted to 3%. I believe that is what Rick was referring to when he asked "just use full strength?" As such, the answer to his question is an obvious "yes." -Dave-

Response:

No…. don’t use full strength. I only use like 1 or 2 drops per gallon. I figure that works out to about 3%. There are products on the market that already have this mixture. I don’t want to be responsible for hurting anyone’s babies. Crystal — The best reading, is reading between the lines. _

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you just apply it full strength over the entire soil area or dilute it with water? Think it would work with my Catteytonia Why Not? Noticed I have a fed little buggers crawling around last time I watered on Tuesday! Rick~ I use it all the time on my regular house plants. Works like a charm. Been lucky with the orchids, no outbreaks. Crystal — The best reading, is reading between the lines. _ Hi all, While researching environmentally friendly miticides to knock down a spider mite infestation before getting the predators in to finish the job, in addition to the usual hort oils and soaps I was intrigued to find 3% hydrogen peroxide recommended as a miticide and particularly an ovicide. Has anybody heard of this or tried it? Sounded too easy to be true to me…do you suppose the bubbles tickle them to death? I’ve heard of using peroxide as a bactericide, but not as a bugicide. Cheers, Sue Austin in unbelievably buggy Ipswich, where the deerflies are the size of helicopters, the mosquitoes can carry away small dogs and the dreaded greenheads are only a week away…ah, the joys of summer! — Posted from chmls05.mediaone.net [24.147.1.143] via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Response:

Do you just apply it full strength over the entire soil area or dilute it with water? Think it would work with my Catteytonia Why Not? Noticed I have a fed little buggers crawling around last time I watered on Tuesday! Rick~

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I use it all the time on my regular house plants. Works like a charm. Been lucky with the orchids, no outbreaks. Crystal — The best reading, is reading between the lines. _ Hi all, While researching environmentally friendly miticides to knock down a spider mite infestation before getting the predators in to finish the job, in addition to the usual hort oils and soaps I was intrigued to find 3% hydrogen peroxide recommended as a miticide and particularly an ovicide. Has anybody heard of this or tried it? Sounded too easy to be true to me…do you suppose the bubbles tickle them to death? I’ve heard of using peroxide as a bactericide, but not as a bugicide. Cheers, Sue Austin in unbelievably buggy Ipswich, where the deerflies are the size of helicopters, the mosquitoes can carry away small dogs and the dreaded greenheads are only a week away…ah, the joys of summer! — Posted from chmls05.mediaone.net [24.147.1.143] via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Response:

I use it all the time on my regular house plants. Works like a charm. Been lucky with the orchids, no outbreaks. Crystal — The best reading, is reading between the lines. _

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, While researching environmentally friendly miticides to knock down a spider mite infestation before getting the predators in to finish the job, in addition to the usual hort oils and soaps I was intrigued to find 3% hydrogen peroxide recommended as a miticide and particularly an ovicide. Has anybody heard of this or tried it? Sounded too easy to be true to me…do you suppose the bubbles tickle them to death? I’ve heard of using peroxide as a bactericide, but not as a bugicide. Cheers, Sue Austin in unbelievably buggy Ipswich, where the deerflies are the size of helicopters, the mosquitoes can carry away small dogs and the dreaded greenheads are only a week away…ah, the joys of summer! — Posted from chmls05.mediaone.net [24.147.1.143] via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Response:

Hi all, While researching environmentally friendly miticides to knock down a spider mite infestation before getting the predators in to finish the job, in addition to the usual hort oils and soaps I was intrigued to find 3% hydrogen peroxide recommended as a miticide and particularly an ovicide. Has anybody heard of this or tried it? Sounded too easy to be true to me…do you suppose the bubbles tickle them to death? I’ve heard of using peroxide as a bactericide, but not as a bugicide. Cheers, Sue Austin in unbelievably buggy Ipswich, where the deerflies are the size of helicopters, the mosquitoes can carry away small dogs and the dreaded greenheads are only a week away…ah, the joys of summer! — Posted from chmls05.mediaone.net [24.147.1.143] via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Response:

Help with lighting situation- this is wierd!

admin — Thu, 04 Jan 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

A foot is way to far away. you should have the top of the plant no more than 2” from the tubes. If i did my math right the light is 64 times britter at 2 inches than it is at a foot Although it isn’t readily apparent to the human eye these bulbs are extremly blue(as is sunlight). They are intended to do make colours look normal, CRI is Colour Rendering Index , 100 is sunlight, so 90 is very good ( high pressure sodiums hve a CRI of 27). However light for looking at plants and light for growing plants isn’t the same. Under gro-lux, grow’n’sho ect. the plants will look funny and the colours of the flowers may look washed out, but they will grow faster, stronger, and bloom more prolificly. Some of the lighting companies are now useing some thing called PAR(Photosyntheticly Active Radiation) that tells you how much of the light is useable by the plants. A good PAR value would be in the 35% -45% range.

Response:

The plants all seem just fine, but it just really freaks me out that it is the Vandas that are showing the strongest effect of high light while the Paphs are not changing (but the Paphs are all double factor vinis which could have an effect.)

The only thing I can think of (i.e., this is a wild guess) is that there’s something peculiar to the chemistry of the vandas that is reacting to some part of the spectrum of the lamps. FWIW, I’m having a similar experience in that an Ascovandoritis is reacting similarly under my fluos (a mix of things, not sure what and I’m not where they are to check). The weirdest thing is that it seems to color up and fade depending on how well watered it is. More water, more color. When it dries out, the color fades dramatically. I can’t believe it’s getting "too much" light in general so I figure something else is going on.

Response:

I am also using those lamps from Home Depot but at about a 40% level, my other lamps are cool white or daylight regulars. My light intensity runs between 400 and 600 foot candles and I have noticed some purpleing of leaves on my darker flowering orchids and those that have red in the bloom color. If it bothers you try switching half of your lamps out to cool whites or daylights maybe this will give you a better wavelength balance. Dusty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all, Just wanted to follow up on a post from a month ago. I reported that with these 40 watt sunlight bulbs my plant leaves were starting to turn purple. Well it is getting even more interesting now. There are 40 watt bulbs and there are 4 per shelf. I had a Vanda seedling that was of dark purple parentage that came from RF with green foliage. It is now dark purple foliage all over and the plant appears to be just fine. Plant was about 12 inches from the light at the tips. The plant is almost 100% dark purple and still doing fine. The Kasem’s Delight ‘Robert’ full grown plants have some purple blotching on the top leaves now and the newest sets of leaves are getting almost an inch longer than what were the top leaves when I got the plants 6 weeks ago. Keep in mind these are mature plants coming from a top nursery. Longer leaves now under indoor growing conditions are a major surprise. Some of my Amaryllis bulbs I put under there are also turning purple foliage wise and the things are growing like weeds and putting out extra spikes. All this time the vinicolor Paphs are growing incredibly fast and not showing any signs of receiving excess light and they are about as far from the light as the Vandas. My Phal Hilo Lip clone is growing super fast with a new leaf coming on after my owning it for only 4 weeks. In short, my plants are growing at a pace I have never seen before and full size Vandas appear to be getting more than enough light from a non-HID indoor lighting system. This is great, but wierd! My only concern is the high level of purple pigment many of the plants are showing. This is not normal. And it is too soon for me to reasonably conclude it is not having a negative impact. Anyone else use these "sunlight" bulbs before? I got them at Home Depot for $6 each and they come in orange sleeves. Tom.

Response:

I only recently have started with orchids, but have grown indoor plants for years when living in NYC – I needed the extra light as much Having said that, have you all ruled out sunburn????? To go from an opaque greenhouse to sitting under a bare bulb might be mimicking a spectrum reaction similar to sunburning a new plant in the summer for the first time….. $.02 Hey all, Just wanted to follow up on a post from a month ago. I reported that with these 40 watt sunlight bulbs my plant leaves were starting to turn purple. Well it is getting even more interesting now. There are 40 watt bulbs and there are 4 per shelf. I had a Vanda seedling that was of dark purple parentage that came from RF with green foliage. It is now dark purple foliage all over and the plant appears to be just fine. Plant was about 12 inches from the light at the tips. The plant is almost 100% dark purple and still doing fine.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In short, my plants are growing at a pace I have never seen before and full size Vandas appear to be getting more than enough light from a non-HID indoor lighting system. This is great, but wierd! My only concern is the high level of purple pigment many of the plants are showing. This is not normal. And it is too soon for me to reasonably conclude it is not having a negative impact. Anyone else use these "sunlight" bulbs before? I got them at Home Depot for $6 each and they come in orange sleeves. Tom.

Response:

I use these bulbs and get purple vein like markings on my dendrobiums. On the parts of the leaves that wrap around the canes. All my orchid plants seem to like them, as they are growing very well. This is my first year with them on my orchids, but I have used them for years on my aquatic flourescent bulbs when these cheap sunshine bulbs work great.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …snip… As for the brand name, I found one of the sleeves so here goes with some specs, Sunshine by GE 40 watt bulb Avg. initial lumens- 2250 Color temp. 5000deg K. 90 CRI …snip I have used a combination of these lights with GE grow lights and noticed the pigment you mention on my phals. I didn’t see any of the pigment on my paphs or smallish catts though. The sunshine bulbs are the same as GE Colour 50’s that have a very even spectral output that makes them good for any area that needs balanced light output, e.g. paint stores, printing companies etc. I am hoping to get a new scanner over the next couple of weeks and I can send you a scanned copy of the spectral output from the GE literature if you like. Just let me know. I did like this combination but have switched to MH lights because of my increased taste for higher light plants. Martin.

Response:

Is the posture of these new leaves similar to those it had when you got it? If they are growing up, toward the light, instead of arcing over, it suggests they’re not really getting enough light. I’m not sure if this is included in the term "etoliation" (or if that just refers to leggy stems), but plants will often grow larger than "normal" leaves under less-than-ideal light conditions, presumably in an effort to maximize their ability to catch what light there is. But these tubes sound interesting. Since I also grow at least half my plants under fluorescents, I’ll have to check them out. If you mentioned a brand name, I missed it. Could you repost that?

Response:

The Kasem’s Delight ‘Robert’ full grown plants have some purple blotching on the top leaves now and the newest sets of leaves are getting almost an inch longer than what were the top leaves when I got the plants 6 weeks ago. Is the posture of these new leaves similar to those it had when you got it? If they are growing up, toward the light, instead of arcing over, it suggests they’re not really getting enough light. I’m not sure if this is included in the term "etoliation" (or if that just refers to leggy stems), but plants will often grow larger than "normal" leaves under less-than-ideal light conditions, presumably in an effort to maximize their ability to catch what light there is.

Hi, Just double checked and yes the leaves are growing in the normal fashion. It is just freaking me out some. I have grown orchids since I was 9 years old ( nearly 20 years now- kinda scary ) and I have had all sorts of conditions from greenhouses, to several different indoor setups to windowsills, and I have never seen anything like this before. And I think it must be the light because one of the Kasem’s Delights is about 2 inches taller than the other and the taller one shows more purple pigmentation than the other one. Both were identically pure green when I got them a few weeks ago. As for the brand name, I found one of the sleeves so here goes with some specs, Sunshine by GE 40 watt bulb Avg. initial lumens- 2250 Color temp. 5000deg K. 90 CRI Not sure what those figures mean, but maybe that will shed some light on the matter ( hahahaha ) The bulb is advertised to "Simulates noonday summer sun. Ideal for color critical areas or where sunlight is at a minimum." The plants all seem just fine, but it just really freaks me out that it is the Vandas that are showing the strongest effect of high light while the Paphs are not changing (but the Paphs are all double factor vinis which could have an effect.) The speed with which the plants reacted is also a bit surprising. Thanks to you and all other posters for your thoughts. One of the great things about orchids is that I never know what to expect from them next. Just as long as I do not kill them in the process… Tom.

Response:

…snip… As for the brand name, I found one of the sleeves so here goes with some specs, Sunshine by GE 40 watt bulb Avg. initial lumens- 2250 Color temp. 5000deg K. 90 CRI

…snip I have used a combination of these lights with GE grow lights and noticed the pigment you mention on my phals. I didn’t see any of the pigment on my paphs or smallish catts though. The sunshine bulbs are the same as GE Colour 50’s that have a very even spectral output that makes them good for any area that needs balanced light output, e.g. paint stores, printing companies etc. I am hoping to get a new scanner over the next couple of weeks and I can send you a scanned copy of the spectral output from the GE literature if you like. Just let me know. I did like this combination but have switched to MH lights because of my increased taste for higher light plants. Martin.

Response:

Tom, I also grow under a light stand using a mix of warm white and grow-lux bulbs. Some of my phals and paphs have very purple leaves, especially on the undersides and edges. Several of my paphs is purple veined (P Charles Sladden(glaucophyllum x bellatulum) and P (haynaldiarium x delantii). I haven’t bloomed these yet but looking at some of the descriptions on Jay Phal’s (very fine) http://www.orchidspecies.com encyclopedia they seem to have a fair amount of reddish color in their background. The phals with purple leaves also tend to have reddish or purple blooms but not all of them, one of the plants with a fair amount of purple in the leaves has a pure white bloom. I also found a pretty dramatic increase in growth rates under the lights. This year the winter blooming Phals have done great, one has put out three spikes, another has put out a multi-branched spike that is twice the size of the inflorescence it had when I purchased it last winter. Just waiting to see how they bloom out (hoping they aren’t leggy). Phals and Paphs seem to like the lights, but my mini-catts have only responded slightly. The growth still seems to follow seasons with sprints and rests. Forget the high light species they just hang on under the flourescents. I’m sure the wavelengths of the bulbs has something to do with it, the same plants did not show as much reddish purple in the leaves when I purchased them out of a green house. William

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all, Just wanted to follow up on a post from a month ago. I reported that with these 40 watt sunlight bulbs my plant leaves were starting to turn purple. Well it is getting even more interesting now. There are 40 watt bulbs and there are 4 per shelf. I had a Vanda seedling that was of dark purple parentage that came from RF with green foliage. It is now dark purple foliage all over and the plant appears to be just fine. Plant was about 12 inches from the light at the tips. The plant is almost 100% dark purple and still doing fine. The Kasem’s Delight ‘Robert’ full grown plants have some purple blotching on the top leaves now and the newest sets of leaves are getting almost an inch longer than what were the top leaves when I got the plants 6 weeks ago. Keep in mind these are mature plants coming from a top nursery. Longer leaves now under indoor growing conditions are a major surprise. Some of my Amaryllis bulbs I put under there are also turning purple foliage wise and the things are growing like weeds and putting out extra spikes. All this time the vinicolor Paphs are growing incredibly fast and not showing any signs of receiving excess light and they are about as far from the light as the Vandas. My Phal Hilo Lip clone is growing super fast with a new leaf coming on after my owning it for only 4 weeks. In short, my plants are growing at a pace I have never seen before and full size Vandas appear to be getting more than enough light from a non-HID indoor lighting system. This is great, but wierd! My only concern is the high level of purple pigment many of the plants are showing. This is not normal. And it is too soon for me to reasonably conclude it is not having a negative impact. Anyone else use these "sunlight" bulbs before? I got them at Home Depot for $6 each and they come in orange sleeves. Tom.

Response:

Hey all, Just wanted to follow up on a post from a month ago. I reported that with these 40 watt sunlight bulbs my plant leaves were starting to turn purple. Well it is getting even more interesting now. There are 40 watt bulbs and there are 4 per shelf. I had a Vanda seedling that was of dark purple parentage that came from RF with green foliage. It is now dark purple foliage all over and the plant appears to be just fine. Plant was about 12 inches from the light at the tips. The plant is almost 100% dark purple and still doing fine. The Kasem’s Delight ‘Robert’ full grown plants have some purple blotching on the top leaves now and the newest sets of leaves are getting almost an inch longer than what were the top leaves when I got the plants 6 weeks ago. Keep in mind these are mature plants coming from a top nursery. Longer leaves now under indoor growing conditions are a major surprise. Some of my Amaryllis bulbs I put under there are also turning purple foliage wise and the things are growing like weeds and putting out extra spikes. All this time the vinicolor Paphs are growing incredibly fast and not showing any signs of receiving excess light and they are about as far from the light as the Vandas. My Phal Hilo Lip clone is growing super fast with a new leaf coming on after my owning it for only 4 weeks. In short, my plants are growing at a pace I have never seen before and full size Vandas appear to be getting more than enough light from a non-HID indoor lighting system. This is great, but wierd! My only concern is the high level of purple pigment many of the plants are showing. This is not normal. And it is too soon for me to reasonably conclude it is not having a negative impact. Anyone else use these "sunlight" bulbs before? I got them at Home Depot for $6 each and they come in orange sleeves. Tom.

Response:

Is light intensity the only reason the purple pigment would appear? Could wave length combination weighted differently than other lamps cause this. A plant can make anthocyanin more easily/abundantly in certain temperature ranges than in others. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that different wave lengths of light and/or temperatures effect how a plant assimilates available nutrients. You have altered the balance of things in your growing area with these high-falutin lights. Stand back. That Vanda is libel to explode.

Response:

EnstarII

admin — Sat, 04 Nov 2000 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Stephen, I agree with you about the apparent lack of limits on stupidity out there, but I just figure I’ll see some familiar names in next year’s Darwin Awards.

Ray, I seem to recall about 10 years back when the L.A. area had an outbreak of med fruit fly, malathion was being applied via plane and helicopter, people were upset about it, so a gentleman with their co-op extension drank some malathion from the bottle to prove how safe it was. Go figure. Stephen- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ray Barkalow –<– First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info "I’m not getting old. I just need repotting" until they feel they have prevailed. I don’t, and do not intend to respond to this issue further. C. Early Neither do I. I don’t want this to turn into "As The World Turns." I guess I’ll just go on being my paranoid, strident, ridiculous and provocative self. Use what used to be a restricted use pesticide in the house if you wish, just remember that a dust mask is not a respirator, and the cannisters need to be changed on a regular basis. As for me, I’ll stay mentally unbalanced and not use anything that could be potentially hazardous in the house, thank you very much. To anyone who has been wading through all this garbage, my apologies. To C. Early, I am sorry if my statements offended you. Your faith in human nature is much better than mine, I have seen and read too much about the stupid things people do. Stephen

Response:

Interesting, the label on the Enstar II I purchased today says 4 hours REI — Ray Barkalow –<– First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info "I’m not getting old. I just need repotting"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most insecticides are approved for specific uses and areas only. Some are only to be used outdoors, with use in greenhouses restricted, while others can be used inside the home. I picked up a copy of the Enstar II lable today while making a purchase at a local wholesale horticulture supply company. Enstar II is labled for use in greenhouses and interiorscapes. There is no mention of its use being recommended in the home. The usual precautions are noted on the lable, wear protective clothing, gloves, shoes and socks. Don’t breath the vapor etc. The REI stated on the lable is 12 so one of the catalogs I have is incorrect. I was surprised to find out that Knox Out, microencapsulated diazinon was restricted since up until about a year ago this product was readily available The restriction it turns out is for outdoor use. Seems it kills song birds and should not be used. It is still labled for use in greenhouses. None of the products were recommended for home use. So proceed with

caution.

Response:

Please define "interiorscapes". I would think that a lot of people may infer that this would qualify for use in the home. Thanks Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most insecticides are approved for specific uses and areas only. Some are only to be used outdoors, with use in greenhouses restricted, while others can be used inside the home. I picked up a copy of the Enstar II lable today while making a purchase at a local wholesale horticulture supply company. Enstar II is labled for use in greenhouses and interiorscapes. There is no mention of its use being recommended in the home. The usual precautions are noted on the lable, wear protective clothing, gloves, shoes and socks. Don’t breath the vapor etc. The REI stated on the lable is 12 so one of the catalogs I have is incorrect.

Response:

The label states: "Enstar II Insect Growth Regulator for Control of Whiteflies, Aphids, Soft-bodies and Armored Scales, Mealybugs, and Fungus Gnats in Greenhouses and Interiorscapes (i.e., Atriums) on Ornamental Plants." — Ray Barkalow –<– First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info "I’m not getting old. I just need repotting"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please define "interiorscapes". I would think that a lot of people may infer that this would qualify for use in the home. Thanks Scott Most insecticides are approved for specific uses and areas only. Some are only to be used outdoors, with use in greenhouses restricted, while others can be used inside the home. I picked up a copy of the Enstar II lable today while making a purchase at a local wholesale horticulture supply company. Enstar II is labled for use in greenhouses and interiorscapes. There is no mention of its use being recommended in the home. The usual precautions are noted on the lable, wear protective clothing, gloves, shoes and socks. Don’t breath the vapor etc. The REI stated on the lable is 12 so one of the catalogs I have is incorrect.

Response:

Most insecticides are approved for specific uses and areas only. Some are only to be used outdoors, with use in greenhouses restricted, while others can be used inside the home.

I picked up a copy of the Enstar II lable today while making a purchase at a local wholesale horticulture supply company. Enstar II is labled for use in greenhouses and interiorscapes. There is no mention of its use being recommended in the home. The usual precautions are noted on the lable, wear protective clothing, gloves, shoes and socks. Don’t breath the vapor etc. The REI stated on the lable is 12 so one of the catalogs I have is incorrect. I was surprised to find out that Knox Out, microencapsulated diazinon was restricted since up until about a year ago this product was readily available

The restriction it turns out is for outdoor use. Seems it kills song birds and should not be used. It is still labled for use in greenhouses. None of the products were recommended for home use. So proceed with caution.

Response:

I’ve used neem oil, the smell, although unpleasant is not that big a deal, it blasted some phal flowers I had coming on – no big deal, but unfortunately it didn’t get rid of the mealie bugs even after repeated application. Personally I don’t think it works. I know that is heretical but hey, that’s my observations on neem I looked up the specs on Enstar II and besides wearing gloves and eye protection, there doesn’t appear to be much to get alarmed about. The LD50s are in the thousands of mg/kg for eating it and in the mg/kg range for inhaling it. The exposure limit for the solvent (C9 organics – xylene) is 100ppm or a 0.01% solution in air (that is for an 8 hr work day/ 40 hour work week exposure) – anyone have any sense of vaporization rate for xylene in solution? As a 16% solution in the stock it gets diluted to 1 ounce to 3-5 gallons (~390 – 640 fold dilution or less than 0.04% in the final solution). Please feel free to correct my math – its not my long suit but it seems to me that the amount of organics you are likely to breath due to vaporization is less than you would get using fingernail polish remover. I’m all for care in dealing with chemicals but honestly you are dealing with chemicals every day – neem is a whole collections of chemicals, alcohol is a chemical and we spray that on orchids with no worry. The stuff people typically use to clean their bathrooms is probably more noxious than what is in Enstar. Buy a new car and you are probably exposed to more outgassing of organics driving to work than you are with Enstar. Or just get it via the exhaust from other people’s cars as they burn gasoline which has xylene in it. Oh, btw, don’t paint your house – paints of various kinds have xylene in them. And don’t smoke since there are small amounts of xylene in tobacco. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would definitely keep most of those chems out of my house. As far as keeping bugs at bay while not risking poisoning the rest of your family – pets and all – I would recommend neem oil. The biggest problem is the rotten onion odor while it’s still wet… — Ray Barkalow –<– First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info "I’m not getting old. I just need repotting"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I really would like a some sort of consensis about use of anti-pest agents in my house. I grow in my livingroom, I have two ferrets and no kids. I also would like to find something effective against mealies which come inside with the orchids after summering outside. I do my best to irradicate them prior to bringing the orchids back in but generally have a few hanger-ons. The ones that seem to evade my efforts are those that find their ways into leaf sheaths and other hard to get at areas so I would like a systemic (is Enstar systemic?). To avoid vapor in the house I would like a drench (especially as much of what I have is mounted). Has anyone used Enstar II (forget about Mavrik since I can’t stand the smell of the active compound). I figure if I dip each orchid (wearing gloves) and avoid leaving any standing water around I should be pretty safe with Enstar II. Anyone have any contrary comments? I can keep the ferrets out of the area for the day. Two treatments 7 days apart are supposed to be enough to get rid of resident pests so as long as I don’t introduce new I figure I will be okay. Max Stephen, I agree with you about the apparent lack of limits on stupidity out there, but I just figure I’ll see some familiar names in next year’s Darwin Awards. — Ray Barkalow –<– First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info "I’m not getting old. I just need repotting" to argue until they feel they have prevailed. I don’t, and do not intend to respond to this issue further. C. Early Neither do I. I don’t want this to turn into "As The World Turns." I guess I’ll just go on being my paranoid, strident, ridiculous and provocative self. Use what used to be a restricted use pesticide in the house if you wish, just remember that a dust mask is not a respirator, and the cannisters need to be changed on a regular basis. As for me, I’ll stay mentally unbalanced and not use anything that could be potentially hazardous in the house, thank you very much. To anyone who has been wading through all this garbage, my apologies. To C. Early, I am sorry if my statements offended you. Your faith in human nature is much better than mine, I have seen and read too much about the stupid things people do. Stephen Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

What besides a small amount of Xylene makes Enstar II objectionable. And if it is the Xylene, non-chronic exposure to that, especially if it isn’t sprayed, is a pretty low risk. I use the stuff in the lab for histology.

Most insecticides are approved for specific uses and areas only. Some are only to be used outdoors, with use in greenhouses restricted, while others can be used inside the home. Rather than assume anything, the safest thing to do is obtain a copy of the MSA on Enstar II prior to purchase. You should be able to obtain it from either the distributor or directly from the manufacturer. I have three different major wholesale horticultural suppliers catalogs and some of them contain different information. One of them has Enstar II with an REI of 4 while another has an REI of 12. Which one is correct? I was surprised to find out that Knox Out, microencapsulated diazinon was restricted since up until about a year ago this product was readily available at most larger garden centers. Now you need a license to purchase it and it cannot be sent by UPS. There have been many incidents noted where injuries have occured through the use of insecticides. Some of the damage was caused by absorption through the skin. Many of the injuries were to the central nervous system. It’s better to know a product is safe to use in the home rather than question why it might not be.

Response:

I would definitely keep most of those chems out of my house. As far as keeping bugs at bay while not risking poisoning the rest of your family – pets and all – I would recommend neem oil. The biggest problem is the rotten onion odor while it’s still wet… — Ray Barkalow –<– First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info "I’m not getting old. I just need repotting" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I really would like a some sort of consensis about use of anti-pest agents in my house. I grow in my livingroom, I have two ferrets and no kids. I also would like to find something effective against mealies which come inside with the orchids after summering outside. I do my best to irradicate them prior to bringing the orchids back in but generally have a few hanger-ons. The ones that seem to evade my efforts are those that find their ways into leaf sheaths and other hard to get at areas so I would like a systemic (is Enstar systemic?). To avoid vapor in the house I would like a drench (especially as much of what I have is mounted). Has anyone used Enstar II (forget about Mavrik since I can’t stand the smell of the active compound). I figure if I dip each orchid (wearing gloves) and avoid leaving any standing water around I should be pretty safe with Enstar II. Anyone have any contrary comments? I can keep the ferrets out of the area for the day. Two treatments 7 days apart are supposed to be enough to get rid of resident pests so as long as I don’t introduce new I figure I will be okay. Max Stephen, I agree with you about the apparent lack of limits on stupidity out there, but I just figure I’ll see some familiar names in next year’s Darwin Awards. — Ray Barkalow –<– First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info "I’m not getting old. I just need repotting" argue until they feel they have prevailed. I don’t, and do not intend to respond to this issue further. C. Early Neither do I. I don’t want this to turn into "As The World Turns." I guess I’ll just go on being my paranoid, strident, ridiculous and provocative self. Use what used to be a restricted use pesticide in the house if you wish, just remember that a dust mask is not a respirator, and the cannisters need to be changed on a regular basis. As for me, I’ll stay mentally unbalanced and not use anything that could be potentially hazardous in the house, thank you very much. To anyone who has been wading through all this garbage, my apologies. To C. Early, I am sorry if my statements offended you. Your faith in human nature is much better than mine, I have seen and read too much about the stupid things people do. Stephen Before you buy.

Response:

until they feel they have prevailed. I don’t, and do not intend to respond to this issue further. C. Early

Neither do I. I don’t want this to turn into "As The World Turns." I guess I’ll just go on being my paranoid, strident, ridiculous and provocative self. Use what used to be a restricted use pesticide in the house if you wish, just remember that a dust mask is not a respirator, and the cannisters need to be changed on a regular basis. As for me, I’ll stay mentally unbalanced and not use anything that could be potentially hazardous in the house, thank you very much. To anyone who has been wading through all this garbage, my apologies. To C. Early, I am sorry if my statements offended you. Your faith in human nature is much better than mine, I have seen and read too much about the stupid things people do. Stephen

Response:

Stephen, I agree with you about the apparent lack of limits on stupidity out there, but I just figure I’ll see some familiar names in next year’s Darwin Awards. — Ray Barkalow –<– First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info "I’m not getting old. I just need repotting"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – until they feel they have prevailed. I don’t, and do not intend to respond to this issue further. C. Early Neither do I. I don’t want this to turn into "As The World Turns." I guess I’ll just go on being my paranoid, strident, ridiculous and provocative self. Use what used to be a restricted use pesticide in the house if you wish, just remember that a dust mask is not a respirator, and the cannisters need to be changed on a regular basis. As for me, I’ll stay mentally unbalanced and not use anything that could be potentially hazardous in the house, thank you very much. To anyone who has been wading through all this garbage, my apologies. To C. Early, I am sorry if my statements offended you. Your faith in human nature is much better than mine, I have seen and read too much about the stupid things people do. Stephen

Response:

Some people develop allergic reactions to pythrethins and pyrethroids, the category to which Mavrik (fluvalinate) belongs. Hypersensitiviy reactions do not equate to toxicity. There are probably far more people allegic to peanuts than pyrethroids, yet I haven’t heard anyone advising the public to keep peanuts out of the house.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – toxicity Howard, Thought I would add my $.02 to this discussion. I would not be using Mavrik Aquaflow on plants inside the house even if they were in the basement. I definitely wouldn’t use it if someone had respiratory problems and was around it. It will send anyone who is not in protective gear around it into a coughing spell like you wouldn’t believe. It may be low toxicity but I would stay away from it inside. A greenhouse with protective gear is fine. My opinion but I have seen how it affects people, myself included. Regards, Stephen

Response:

"Stephen": Okay, be paranoid. It’s your choice – just as mine is to be less so, and to depend on published information regarding mammalian toxicity. I’m glad your strident call for caution with Mavrik will only result in some incidents where people will avoid using it. Your observation that you’ve never seen anyone not wearing "safety equipment" (I presume you mean a respirator) come into contact with it and not "go into immediate fits of coughing", is just that – your observation. I have had contrary experience, although, of course, I do not advocate anyone violating published regulatory guidelines on PPE or worker protection. As for the ridiculous and provocative statement that you’ve never seen a peanut with a REI attached to it – no response. I leave it to others to evaluate the rationality of that statement. Personally, I’d have no particular worries about taking a plant recently sprayed with Mavrik into my living area to display its blooms, but I wouldn’t apply it there with my sprayer. I have more common sense than that, and I optimistically assume most others do to. I made no claim that you had said Mavrik was "highly toxic", nor did I state or imply that the decisions to use or avoid potentially toxic pesticides was a "laughing matter". Only a fool would do so. Some people have a need to argue until they feel they have prevailed. I don’t, and do not intend to respond to this issue further. C. Early

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Again, Several points in regards to C. Early’s response to my earlier statements on Mavrik. First, I never said it was highly toxic. Also if it as safe as I gather C. Early thinks it is, why does it have an REI attached with it? Why doesn’t it say you can use it with people working nearby? Why does it mention safety equipment to be used with it? I would like to know if C. Early would use it in his house with people and pets present, esp. children? Also I never heard of a peanut that had an REI attached to it. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but haven’t people died from allergic reactions to specific substances? Having used pesticides for over 30 years and been exposed to many truly dangerous ones, I have learned to be extremely cautious with them. That is one reason I would not advise anyone about pesticides and how safe they are. Many of the banned pesticides today were considered safe in their day. Two come to mind immediately, DDT and Chlordane. Chlordane used to be sold over the counter. I will tell you again that I never saw anyone come into contact with Mavrik with no safety equipment on who didn’t go into immediate fits of coughing. Several of these we had to send to the emergency room with one going on oxygen. To me, this is no laughing matter. I am sure there are many people who would not show this reaction, but I wouldn’t suggest they try just to see if they are one of them or not. I am not trying to pick a fight, I would rather see people be safe rather than sorry. I stick by my original statement, I would not advise anyone to use it in the house and I definitely wouldn’t use it if I were home alone. I’m quite sure there will be all sorts of disagreement to this, but better you than me to tell someone you don’t know, along with not knowing their medical history, that a pesticide is safe to use. I wouldn’t want it on my head if something went wrong. Regards, Stephen Some people develop allergic reactions to pythrethins and pyrethroids, the category to which Mavrik (fluvalinate) belongs. Hypersensitiviy reactions do not equate to toxicity. There are probably far more people allegic to peanuts than pyrethroids, yet I haven’t heard anyone advising the public to keep peanuts out of the house. low toxicity Howard, Thought I would add my $.02 to this discussion. I would not be using Mavrik Aquaflow on plants inside the house even if they were in the basement. I definitely wouldn’t use it if someone had respiratory problems and was around it. It will send anyone who is not in protective gear around it into a coughing spell like you wouldn’t believe. It may be low toxicity but I would stay away from it inside. A greenhouse with protective gear is fine. My opinion but I have seen how it affects people, myself included. Regards, Stephen

Response:

Neither Enstar II nor Mavrik would be recommended for use in the home. The latter has an REI of 12.

I can understand why Mavrik wouldn’t be just based upon the smell which I find objectionable. What besides a small amount of Xylene makes Enstar II objectionable. And if it is the Xylene, non-chronic exposure to that, especially if it isn’t sprayed, is a pretty low risk. I use the stuff in the lab for histology. Before you buy.

Response:

I should be pretty safe with Enstar II. Anyone have any contrary comments?

Neither Enstar II nor Mavrik would be recommended for use in the home. The latter has an REI of 12. I was going to suggest Knox Out, but just noticed that it has been listed as a restricted pesticide and one may need a license to obtain it. One could try using insecticidal soap like one of the Safer products or perhaps a product manufactured by Ortho call "Bloom-Gard". This insecticide which is pre-metered using the "Lock’N Spray" device is listed for orchid plants and will control mealy and other bugs. In addition it can be sprayed on open flowers without damage. There are no indications on the lable that would preclude use in the home but I just to be safe. If you want to use it as a drench you could spray it into a bucket and then drench your plants. As with all chemicals follow the directions, wear protective clothing and dispose of the container properly.

Response:

I really would like a some sort of consensis about use of anti-pest agents in my house. I grow in my livingroom, I have two ferrets and no kids. I also would like to find something effective against mealies which come inside with the orchids after summering outside. I do my best to irradicate them prior to bringing the orchids back in but generally have a few hanger-ons. The ones that seem to evade my efforts are those that find their ways into leaf sheaths and other hard to get at areas so I would like a systemic (is Enstar systemic?). To avoid vapor in the house I would like a drench (especially as much of what I have is mounted). Has anyone used Enstar II (forget about Mavrik since I can’t stand the smell of the active compound). I figure if I dip each orchid (wearing gloves) and avoid leaving any standing water around I should be pretty safe with Enstar II. Anyone have any contrary comments? I can keep the ferrets out of the area for the day. Two treatments 7 days apart are supposed to be enough to get rid of resident pests so as long as I don’t introduce new I figure I will be okay. Max – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stephen, I agree with you about the apparent lack of limits on stupidity out there, but I just figure I’ll see some familiar names in next year’s Darwin Awards. — Ray Barkalow –<– First Rays Orchids http://www.firstrays.com Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info "I’m not getting old. I just need repotting" argue until they feel they have prevailed. I don’t, and do not intend to respond to this issue further. C. Early Neither do I. I don’t want this to turn into "As The World Turns." I guess I’ll just go on being my paranoid, strident, ridiculous and provocative self. Use what used to be a restricted use pesticide in the house if you wish, just remember that a dust mask is not a respirator, and the cannisters need to be changed on a regular basis. As for me, I’ll stay mentally unbalanced and not use anything that could be potentially hazardous in the house, thank you very much. To anyone who has been wading through all this garbage, my apologies. To C. Early, I am sorry if my statements offended you. Your faith in human nature is much better than mine, I have seen and read too much about the stupid things people do. Stephen

Before you buy.

Response:

<< So where do you get it from…..sounds fairly low toxicity as it recommended for indoor plantscapes (I think) and only 4 hour restricted entry. Howard Howard-any good GH supply house should carry this. I get mine from Griffin, in Tewksbury, MA; however, the closest one to you I know of is Penn Seed Co, Box 390, Dallas, PA 18612-9781; 717-675-8585. The company which makes this also makes Pentac, and Mavrik, and they can be mixed together or used separately. Mavrik is a synthetic pyrethrim with low toxicity; and Pentac is the best miticide on the market and its mode of action precludes resistance, and has no toxicity to vertebrates. As mentioned earlier, Enstar 11 is a growth regulator, so it not only has low toxicity, but there will be no resistance buildup. The company advises using all 3 together as a preventive; I have used these for over 4 years, but not as a preventive. All of these are expensive, but they do the job. Enstar 11 and Mavrik can be purchased in small amounts; Pentac only comes in a large amount. If you wish to use these as advised by the company, all 3 come in a single bottle. Wilford Neptune

Response:

Hi Again, Several points in regards to C. Early’s response to my earlier statements on Mavrik. First, I never said it was highly toxic. Also if it as safe as I gather C. Early thinks it is, why does it have an REI attached with it? Why doesn’t it say you can use it with people working nearby? Why does it mention safety equipment to be used with it? I would like to know if C. Early would use it in his house with people and pets present, esp. children? Also I never heard of a peanut that had an REI attached to it. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but haven’t people died from allergic reactions to specific substances? Having used pesticides for over 30 years and been exposed to many truly dangerous ones, I have learned to be extremely cautious with them. That is one reason I would not advise anyone about pesticides and how safe they are. Many of the banned pesticides today were considered safe in their day. Two come to mind immediately, DDT and Chlordane. Chlordane used to be sold over the counter. I will tell you again that I never saw anyone come into contact with Mavrik with no safety equipment on who didn’t go into immediate fits of coughing. Several of these we had to send to the emergency room with one going on oxygen. To me, this is no laughing matter. I am sure there are many people who would not show this reaction, but I wouldn’t suggest they try just to see if they are one of them or not. I am not trying to pick a fight, I would rather see people be safe rather than sorry. I stick by my original statement, I would not advise anyone to use it in the house and I definitely wouldn’t use it if I were home alone. I’m quite sure there will be all sorts of disagreement to this, but better you than me to tell someone you don’t know, along with not knowing their medical history, that a pesticide is safe to use. I wouldn’t want it on my head if something went wrong. Regards, Stephen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some people develop allergic reactions to pythrethins and pyrethroids, the category to which Mavrik (fluvalinate) belongs. Hypersensitiviy reactions do not equate to toxicity. There are probably far more people allegic to peanuts than pyrethroids, yet I haven’t heard anyone advising the public to keep peanuts out of the house. toxicity Howard, Thought I would add my $.02 to this discussion. I would not be using Mavrik Aquaflow on plants inside the house even if they were in the basement. I definitely wouldn’t use it if someone had respiratory problems and was around it. It will send anyone who is not in protective gear around it into a coughing spell like you wouldn’t believe. It may be low toxicity but I would stay away from it inside. A greenhouse with protective gear is fine. My opinion but I have seen how it affects people, myself included. Regards, Stephen

Response:

I know I asked this before, but I seem to have misplaced the answer. Where can one obtain Enstar II. Easiest option would be to order from a web site but I can’t seem to find one that sells it. Howard

Response:

I know I asked this before, but I seem to have misplaced the answer. Where can one obtain Enstar II.

Howard, What is Enstar II? Keith Before you buy.

Response:

What is Enstar II? Keith

Enstar II is an insect growth refulator for control of foliar and ground mealy bug, soft and armored scale, whitefly, aphid and fungus gnat. a 5 oz bottle makes 100 gallons and costs between $68-80 depending on quanity purchased. It has a restricted entry level or REI of 4.

Response:

Enstar II is an insect growth refulator for control of foliar and ground mealy

should be growth regulator

Response:

Enstar II is an insect growth refulator for control of foliar and ground mealy should be growth regulator

So where do you get it from…..sounds fairly low toxicity as it recommended for indoor plantscapes (I think) and only 4 hour restricted entry. Howard

Response:

: So where do you get it from…..sounds fairly low toxicity as it recommended : for indoor plantscapes (I think) and only 4 hour restricted entry. http://www.teufel.com/

Response:

Hello Howard, This is all I could find but there is an 800 # to call & find out where you can buy it. http://www.horizononline.com/MSDS_Sheets/844.txt Cheers Wendy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Enstar II is an insect growth refulator for control of foliar and ground mealy should be growth regulator So where do you get it from…..sounds fairly low toxicity as it recommended for indoor plantscapes (I think) and only 4 hour restricted entry. Howard

Response:

toxicity

Howard, Thought I would add my $.02 to this discussion. I would not be using Mavrik Aquaflow on plants inside the house even if they were in the basement. I definitely wouldn’t use it if someone had respiratory problems and was around it. It will send anyone who is not in protective gear around it into a coughing spell like you wouldn’t believe. It may be low toxicity but I would stay away from it inside. A greenhouse with protective gear is fine. My opinion but I have seen how it affects people, myself included. Regards, Stephen

Response:

Orchid Justice

admin — Mon, 31 Jul 2000 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I had my day in court last week and recieved a judgement for the lost and damaged orchid plants. Thanks to all who followed my thread on this one and offered support. Now wait till he pays me before congratulating me. I’m looking forward to some great replacement plants. sandra

Response:

Congratulations, and yes, a judgment ain’t the same as a check! Don’t spend it till you got it. K Barrett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had my day in court last week and recieved a judgement for the lost and damaged orchid plants. Thanks to all who followed my thread on this one and offered support. Now wait till he pays me before congratulating me. I’m looking forward to some great replacement plants. sandra

Response:

Greenhouse/shade cloth questions

admin — Sun, 16 Jul 2000 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I am putting up a small greenhouse in my yard to move my HID grown collection outdoors Please tell me that this is not the "necessary" next step that is inevitable for this mania. Say it isn’t so. Have you ever seen a grown man cry? Howard

No, Howard it isn’t mandatory…you can do what I did; move your daughter out and take-over her room! See Ya! "Connie"

Response:

Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am putting up a small greenhouse in my yard to move my HID grown collection outdoors Please tell me that this is not the "necessary" next step that is inevitable for this mania. Say it isn’t so. Have you ever seen a grown man cry? Howard Too bad, Howard! At least for me, it’s "almost" a neccessary step to have a little greenhouse to get a better controlled climate for the orchids. I had been keeping orchids under HID lights for a while. After moving the plants outside–under shade, not in a greenhouse yet–I find that they are doing way way much better with the natural sunlight and wind. Seeing the result of the outdoor conditions (with the supplement of shade and regular misting,) I don’t think I would move my orchids back in the house. The greenhouse will provide the orchids the neccessary temperature and humidity control, not to mention that it will release some living space back to the humanoids living in the house. -dqv-

Response:

I am putting up a small greenhouse in my yard to move my HID grown collection outdoors

Please tell me that this is not the "necessary" next step that is inevitable for this mania. Say it isn’t so. Have you ever seen a grown man cry? Howard

Response:

Too bad, Howard! At least for me, it’s "almost" a neccessary step to have a little greenhouse to get a better controlled climate for the orchids. I had been keeping orchids under HID lights for a while. After moving the plants outside–under shade, not in a greenhouse yet–I find that they are doing way way much better with the natural sunlight and wind. Seeing the result of the outdoor conditions (with the supplement of shade and regular misting,) I don’t think I would move my orchids back in the house. The greenhouse will provide the orchids the neccessary temperature and humidity control, not to mention that it will release some living space back to the humanoids living in the house. -dqv-

Response:

My greenhouse (in central NJ) has a similar exposure during the winter months. I tried shade cloth and wooden slats, then got lazy and a few years ago tried hanging and arranging sun-loving plants (like vandas) to shade the others. So far I haven’t lost any paphs to sunburn. But of course the winter sun is far less damaging. I take almost all of the plants out of the greenhouse for the summer. Peter

Response:

5 hours of full sun in the middle of the day during the summer will probably be enough to crisp most orchid plants, especially those you would likely grow under HID lamps. I know I was surprised when I made the shift from lights to sunlight. You didn’t say where your are growing. Latitude makes a bit of difference. Type of orchids is very important to answering your question too. If you are growing Phals or many Paph or Phrag species/hybrids, you may not need to worry about the dark produced from your shade cloths during the morning and after noon. Also, remember there are many different densities of cloth you could choose. Al – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am putting up a small greenhouse in my yard to move my HID grown collection outdoors. The site I have available faces south but is tree shaded until 10:00 AM ( gets about 500 fc of light), then has full sun until 3:00, and then is back to shade for the rest of the day. This is the only site I can use. The shade is from deciduous trees so in the winter the light will be more evenly distributed. If I use shade cloth to cut down on the full sun portion of the day (5 hours) , I will then have only 300fc for the morning and afternoon. Should I forego shade cloth and risk toasting the plants in full sun or use the cloth and have a very dark space for 8 hours of the day? Paul

Response:

I am putting up a small greenhouse in my yard to move my HID grown collection outdoors. The site I have available faces south but is tree shaded until 10:00 AM ( gets about 500 fc of light), then has full sun until 3:00, and then is back to shade for the rest of the day. This is the only site I can use. The shade is from deciduous trees so in the winter the light will be more evenly distributed. If I use shade cloth to cut down on the full sun portion of the day (5 hours) , I will then have only 300fc for the morning and afternoon. Should I forego shade cloth and risk toasting the plants in full sun or use the cloth and have a very dark space for 8 hours of the day? Paul

Response:

Class Project!! HELP!!!

admin — Thu, 13 Apr 2000 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I am in a horticulture class at my local Community College. My project for this quarter is the orchids in the school greenhouse. There must be at least a dozen plants in pots and growing on a mossy wall covered w/ chicken wire. There are a lot of fern plants, most of which needs to be thined greatly. My main problem is the orchids on the wall. They have been there for about 10 years and look awful. I want to take off the wire and the orchids and take away all the old dead parts, then create something that will be attractive. The roots are all entangled w/ the fern and other orchid plants. Is there any help? I love orchids, am I over my head? Thank you for any help. Sharon

Response:

A LOT of patience. Give them a good soaking to aid in the release and ability to separate the roots of the orchids from everything else. A pair of diagonal wire cutters to cut out the wire and maybe a second hand to help hold the plants as you get them close to freedom. But most of all patience. Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in a horticulture class at my local Community College. My project for this quarter is the orchids in the school greenhouse. There must be at least a dozen plants in pots and growing on a mossy wall covered w/ chicken wire. There are a lot of fern plants, most of which needs to be thined greatly. My main problem is the orchids on the wall. They have been there for about 10 years and look awful. I want to take off the wire and the orchids and take away all the old dead parts, then create something that will be attractive. The roots are all entangled w/ the fern and other orchid plants. Is there any help? I love orchids, am I over my head? Thank you for any help. Sharon

Response:

Sharon, if you can, take some pictures and have them scanned digitally and post them somewhere on the web…perhaps we can offer some better advice on how to clean up the orchids without harming them. — Prem – Animator, programmer, and orchid and fossil nut extraordinaire… – DNRC Title: Minister of Lightwave 3d Plugin Design Foolishness – Home – http://www.PremDesign.com "We in our foolishness thought we were wise He played the fool and He opened our eyes We in our weakness believed we were strong He became nothing to show we were wrong." "God’s Own Fool" – Michael Card

Response:

cooking your own flasking media.

admin — Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Native Orchids of Australia by David Banks, 1988, Reed Books, French’s Forest, NSW, Australia, pp 77-84.

Does anyone know whether this book is still available? Thanks in advance, Simon M. Wellinga / SymPhyto – Laboratory for in vitro plant propagation Heerenveen, The Netherlands World-wide delivery of orchid species flasks for hobbyists and professionals – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try Chapter 6 of Native Orchids of Australia by David Banks, 1988, Reed Books, French’s Forest, NSW, Australia, pp 77-84. It has formulae for orchid media. Try Knudson’s Orchid formula`C’ or Fetherston’s Orchid formula. Knudson’s is: 20 g sucrose, 15 g agar, 1 g calcium nitrate, 500 mg ammonium sulphate, 250 mg potassium dihydrogen phosphate (sometimes referred to as monobasic), 250 mg magnesium sulphate, 25 mg ferrous sulphate, 7.5 mg manganese sulphate. Make up to one litre with water. You can add other nutrients and regulators, eg as in Fetherstons, as for Knudson’s but add: 125 mg vitamin C, 2 mg vitamin B1, 1 mg nicotinic acid (is it B2 or B3 – I forget), 1 mg indole acetic acid, 200 ml coconut milk (and less water), and try 15 g of ripe banana mashed up. The ethylene stimulates the germination of Australian native orchid seed so might work for others. I have not actually tried this as you can get prepacked ingredients commercially from from an orchid supplier in Western Australia. you have to add the banana though. Use a pressure cooker to sterilise the medium once you have pured it into flasks. Corybas.

Response:

Greetings Janne, It is an interesting idea that you have suggested. Smoke can contain ethylene depending upon what you burn. Ethanol or burning alcohol lamps give it off. Some combusted smoke is definitely hazardous with lots of carcinogens and unfortunately tobacco-smoke can contain dangers of infection by Tobacco Mosaic virus which should always be kept away from orchid plants. It would be quite simple to fill an open flask with such products in a laminar flow cabinet and it should not cause contamination. There is even evidence that just the simple burning of spirit lamps can be enough to increase the concentration of ethylene in your work area and this can affect sensitive plant tissueculture material. Where smoke has been shown to have a beneficial effect of seed germination, and most of the work has been done on South African or Australian floras, there is a belief that it is a product within the smoke that stimulates the germination of seed. Probably unfortunately a more complex chemical combination than ethylene but I do not know the answer to what it is chemically. There is a link to a web page that has a little bit of information http://www.kpbg.wa.gov.au/plantsci/smoke2.html Not sure that there is any evidence that smoke derivatives stimulates the germination of orchids. Orchid seed coats are very thin so would be easily damaged if subjected to heat from smoke or fire. Regards Alan L Winthrop

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings from Finland I think smoke would contain some ethylene too. How to add that in to flasking media remains mystery to me? Could we just blow some washed tobacco-smoke into the flasks after sowing orchid seeds? -Janne-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where smoke has been shown to have a beneficial effect of seed germination, and most of the work has been done on South African or Australian floras, there is a belief that it is a product within the smoke that stimulates the germination of seed. Probably unfortunately a more complex chemical combination than ethylene but I do not know the answer to what it is chemically. There is a link to a web page that has a little bit of information http://www.kpbg.wa.gov.au/plantsci/smoke2.html Not sure that there is any evidence that smoke derivatives stimulates the germination of orchids. Orchid seed coats are very thin so would be easily damaged if subjected to heat from smoke or fire. Regards Alan L Winthrop

Ethylene definitely stimulates the flowering of some terrestrial species after fire, but you are correct that it’s not as clear that it is the compound that stimulates seed germination. Whether a fire is successful in increasing the flowering rate depends on factors like how early or late in the season it happens. Cool fuel reduction burns are probably not as successful as later season hot burns (where there is a risk of uncontrolled bushfire). Maybe other more complex chemicals are produced in the hotter burn, not really enough is known. The banana produces the ethylene but presumably would have other growth hormones and regulators present. Corybas

Response:

You can probably still get this book from The Australian Orchid Foundation. It is on past catalogues, although the latest ads do not mention it. I have not got a website for it, that’s why I put the AOR in my previous posting instead. The AOF, however, is non-profit and supports orchid research. It also runs a seed bank to preserve native species. People in Australia can send seed, and get some of their protocorms back. AOF sells quite a few other books on Australian Orchids, also New Guinea, Asia, Colombia etc. It also has the volumes of Australian Orchid Research, ie up-to-date taxonomy. The address is : 107 Roberts St, Essendon, Victoria, Australia, 3040. If you want books on cultivation of Australian Native Orchids, I mean for 6-12 dollars, there are a couple of cheap and useful books available from the Australian Native orchid society, http://www.anos.org.au – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Native Orchids of Australia by David Banks, 1988, Reed Books, French’s Forest, NSW, Australia, pp 77-84. Does anyone know whether this book is still available? Thanks in advance, Simon M. Wellinga / SymPhyto – Laboratory for in vitro plant propagation Heerenveen, The Netherlands World-wide delivery of orchid species flasks for hobbyists and professionals

Response:

Greetings from Finland I think smoke would contain some ethylene too. How to add that in to flasking media remains mystery to me? Could we just blow some washed tobacco-smoke into the flasks after sowing orchid seeds? -Janne- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day Corybas, Very interested in you posted information. Just curious about your statement regarding ethylene stimulating germination and wonder if this is a suggestion or a fact quoted in David Banks’s book? If indeed ethylene stimulates germination I cannot work out what the source of this is in an aseptic media. Autoclaving would eliminate all sources of ethylene. If you require ethylene it would be necessary to add it as a gas or use ethrel(ethephon). Are the flasks sealed? With sowing most non terrestrial orchids measures are taken to eliminate ethylene accumulation. Always interested to learn of new methods so perhaps you could confirm this if you have the book infront of you. Thanks for your help Regards Alan L Winthrop Try Chapter 6 of Native Orchids of Australia by David Banks, 1988, Reed Books, French’s Forest, NSW, Australia, pp 77-84. It has formulae for orchid media. Try Knudson’s Orchid formula`C’ or Fetherston’s Orchid formula. You can add other nutrients and regulators, eg as in Fetherstons, as for Knudson’s but add: 125 mg vitamin C, 2 mg vitamin B1, 1 mg nicotinic acid (is it B2 or B3 – I forget), 1 mg indole acetic acid, 200 ml coconut milk (and less water), and try 15 g of ripe banana mashed up. The ethylene stimulates the germination of Australian native orchid seed so might work for others. Use a pressure cooker to sterilise the medium once you have pured it into flasks. Corybas.

Response:

Try Chapter 6 of Native Orchids of Australia by David Banks, 1988, Reed Books, French’s Forest, NSW, Australia, pp 77-84. It has formulae for orchid media. Try Knudson’s Orchid formula`C’ or Fetherston’s Orchid formula. Knudson’s is: 20 g sucrose, 15 g agar, 1 g calcium nitrate, 500 mg ammonium sulphate, 250 mg potassium dihydrogen phosphate (sometimes referred to as monobasic), 250 mg magnesium sulphate, 25 mg ferrous sulphate, 7.5 mg manganese sulphate. Make up to one litre with water. You can add other nutrients and regulators, eg as in Fetherstons, as for Knudson’s but add: 125 mg vitamin C, 2 mg vitamin B1, 1 mg nicotinic acid (is it B2 or B3 – I forget), 1 mg indole acetic acid, 200 ml coconut milk (and less water), and try 15 g of ripe banana mashed up. The ethylene stimulates the germination of Australian native orchid seed so might work for others. I have not actually tried this as you can get prepacked ingredients commercially from from an orchid supplier in Western Australia. you have to add the banana though. Use a pressure cooker to sterilise the medium once you have pured it into flasks. Corybas.

Response:

G’day Corybas, Very interested in you posted information. Just curious about your statement regarding ethylene stimulating germination and wonder if this is a suggestion or a fact quoted in David Banks’s book? If indeed ethylene stimulates germination I cannot work out what the source of this is in an aseptic media. Autoclaving would eliminate all sources of ethylene. If you require ethylene it would be necessary to add it as a gas or use ethrel(ethephon). Are the flasks sealed? With sowing most non terrestrial orchids measures are taken to eliminate ethylene accumulation. Always interested to learn of new methods so perhaps you could confirm this if you have the book infront of you. Thanks for your help Regards Alan L Winthrop

Try Chapter 6 of Native Orchids of Australia by David Banks, 1988, Reed Books, French’s Forest, NSW, Australia, pp 77-84. It has formulae for orchid media. Try Knudson’s Orchid formula`C’ or Fetherston’s Orchid formula. You can add other nutrients and regulators, eg as in Fetherstons, as for Knudson’s but add: 125 mg vitamin C, 2 mg vitamin B1, 1 mg nicotinic acid (is it B2 or B3 – I forget), 1 mg indole acetic acid, 200 ml coconut milk (and less water), and try 15 g of ripe banana mashed up.

The ethylene – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – stimulates the germination of Australian native orchid seed so might work for others. Use a pressure cooker to sterilise the medium once you have pured it into flasks. Corybas.

Response:

No to Mail Orders

admin — Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

OK, folks. I think that profpam has been sufficient thrashed for her mail order vent. She had problems with two orders and was angry. She probably doesn’t place hundreds of orders a year, so this represents a pretty high problem rate to her. Rod, I’m sure if your bounced check rate was 25% you’d be a bit peeved as well. I think the group would be best served by simply letting her know that the real problem rate is much lower than what she saw and that most vendors will bend over backwards to correct any problems that do occur. No need to run her off the group forever. deg p.s. Rod – good to hear your health check went well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do you expect to gain by giving all of us a black eye? Inventory problems "happen". Mistakes "happen". They shouldn’t but they do. Even Venger’s makes an error on occasion. Does that make us the devil? I think not. Human, perhaps. Y’know, there’s some people that can’t be pleased no matter what you do, right or wrong. Do we come out here and vilify all customers on that basis? Do I stop accepting all checks because once or twice a year some low-life screws me? No. Life goes on. I think your statement, while the feelings are based on fact, is blatantly unfair to all of us that bust our butts year in and year out. Get a life. -Rod- Well, folks, do you really want to order by mail? Yes, email is easy and results are immediate, but do you know who is at the other end of your transaction? It seems that reputable (?) businesses will screw you if they can. Early in November, I ordered two vanilla orchid plants, a weather station, and an extra transmitter for my greenhouse. In order to ship the orchid plants, the company said they had to send the extra transmitter but did not have the weather station in stock. So, after two months, I never received the the vanilla orchid plants; I returned the weather sensor as it meant nothing without the weather station. Then miraculously, the weather station arrived…but still no Vanilla orchids. Two months later the Washington based firm said they would credit my account. Oh, mail order, how great you are! Well, I decided to give mail order another try. Believe it or not! I, thus, ordered from a Pennsylvania firm. Because I had conducted business with them previously, I thought they would be reliable. Wrong! Wrong! Today, I received two of three items. The third item, it seems I was billed at $30 for an item marked at $20. In addition, the bill said the item was sold out; however, the item was not sent and the charge was not deducted. This ‘Takes the Cake’, people. The item was charged; the item was not received but we still dare to send half an order and charge for the rest. Well, does anyone know the recourse for charge cards? If so, please advise. After this, I cast my vote — NO MORE MAIL ORDERS!!!!! . . . Pam

Response:

I agree totally, Dewitt! — Ray Barkalow < First Rays Orchids Secure Online Ordering http://www.firstrays.com

{Major cut here}

Response:

Some of my cousins and nephews decided to buy me some plants as x-mas gifts…the owner of place took the order and warned the kids about weather….the kids said they would pay extra for insulation and for Today…i received the box post marked.. DECEMBER 15..the box was clearly marked KEEP AWAY FROM HEAT OR COLD…my address was legible , complete adn correct…when i opened the packing was superb…..insulation and everything… worthy of a master what the kids and the retailer were not counting was the fact that somebody ( why is it that is always "somebody" or his friend ( ’somebody else") that screws up) ….in the USPS….lost track of my box…and it was kept almost 18 days in a dark and very hot place……on this one I cannot blame the seller I have been lucky (may be.)…or selective in those I buy from…I had a very stubborn seller that retained my order in summer to prevent cooking of plants…I am gratefull he did..plants are growing happy since they traveled happy……. and when I have had problems with delivered plants…I have found that in 99/99% of cases a nice and coutreous call to nursery resolcves the problem…. But as I said..I am lucky…Hey I even had a large nursery screw my order and sent me the order of another person…large order when I call the gentleman who talked to me said…our mistake keep them and 3 days latter I also received my plants…..the other guy ( my cousin) got also his plants….talk about luck…..and honest people – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, folks. I think that profpam has been sufficient thrashed for her mail order vent. She had problems with two orders and was angry. She probably doesn’t place hundreds of orders a year, so this represents a pretty high problem rate to her. Rod, I’m sure if your bounced check rate was 25% you’d be a bit peeved as well. I think the group would be best served by simply letting her know that the real problem rate is much lower than what she saw and that most vendors will bend over backwards to correct any problems that do occur. No need to run her off the group forever. deg p.s. Rod – good to hear your health check went well. What do you expect to gain by giving all of us a black eye? Inventory problems "happen". Mistakes "happen". They shouldn’t but they do. Even Venger’s makes an error on occasion. Does that make us the devil? I think not. Human, perhaps. Y’know, there’s some people that can’t be pleased no matter what you do, right or wrong. Do we come out here and vilify all customers on that basis? Do I stop accepting all checks because once or twice a year some low-life screws me? No. Life goes on. I think your statement, while the feelings are based on fact, is blatantly unfair to all of us that bust our butts year in and year out. Get a life. -Rod- Well, folks, do you really want to order by mail? Yes, email is easy and results are immediate, but do you know who is at the other end of your transaction? It seems that reputable (?) businesses will screw you if they can. Early in November, I ordered two vanilla orchid plants, a weather station, and an extra transmitter for my greenhouse. In order to ship the orchid plants, the company said they had to send the extra transmitter but did not have the weather station in stock. So, after two months, I never received the the vanilla orchid plants; I returned the weather sensor as it meant nothing without the weather station. Then miraculously, the weather station arrived…but still no Vanilla orchids. Two months later the Washington based firm said they would credit my account. Oh, mail order, how great you are! Well, I decided to give mail order another try. Believe it or not! I, thus, ordered from a Pennsylvania firm. Because I had conducted business with them previously, I thought they would be reliable. Wrong! Wrong! Today, I received two of three items. The third item, it seems I was billed at $30 for an item marked at $20. In addition, the bill said the item was sold out; however, the item was not sent and the charge was not deducted. This ‘Takes the Cake’, people. The item was charged; the item was not received but we still dare to send half an order and charge for the rest. Well, does anyone know the recourse for charge cards? If so, please advise. After this, I cast my vote — NO MORE MAIL ORDERS!!!!! . . . Pam

Before you buy.

Response:

Well, I, for one, must chime in and say that I’ve only had good things so far when dealing with mail orders. I’ve gotten plants from Vengers Orchids; First Rays Orchids; Orchids, Limited; and MAJ Orchids with no problems. I’ve always gotten the plants expected at the expected price. In fact, in Rod Vengers’ orders, I’ve gotten an interesting extra seedling included at no additional charge. So, my vote — use mail orders…but be cautious, and remember, if credit cards are involved, you have the power of the almighty charge- back…I would recommend contacting the dealer and trying to resolve the issue prior to escalating to either a chargeback or discussion in a public forum. AFAICT, in First Rays’ case, it was a mistake and Ray has tried to resolve the situation already. Don’t be too hasty to lump everyone in the same group. And…as an aside, three separate posts in the newsgroup, each identical except for slightly altered subject headings is quite excessive. — Prem – Animator, programmer, and orchid and fossil nut extraordinaire… – DNRC Title: Minister of Lightwave 3d Plugin Design Foolishness – Home – http://www.PremDesign.com "We in our foolishness thought we were wise He played the fool and He opened our eyes We in our weakness believed we were strong He became nothing to show we were wrong." "God’s Own Fool" – Michael Card

Response:

What do you expect to gain by giving all of us a black eye? Inventory problems "happen". Mistakes "happen". They shouldn’t but they do. Even Venger’s makes an error on occasion. Does that make us the devil? I think not. Human, perhaps. Y’know, there’s some people that can’t be pleased no matter what you do, right or wrong. Do we come out here and vilify all customers on that basis? Do I stop accepting all checks because once or twice a year some low-life screws me? No. Life goes on. I think your statement, while the feelings are based on fact, is blatantly unfair to all of us that bust our butts year in and year out. Get a life. -Rod- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, folks, do you really want to order by mail? Yes, email is easy and results are immediate, but do you know who is at the other end of your transaction? It seems that reputable (?) businesses will screw you if they can. Early in November, I ordered two vanilla orchid plants, a weather station, and an extra transmitter for my greenhouse. In order to ship the orchid plants, the company said they had to send the extra transmitter but did not have the weather station in stock. So, after two months, I never received the the vanilla orchid plants; I returned the weather sensor as it meant nothing without the weather station. Then miraculously, the weather station arrived…but still no Vanilla orchids. Two months later the Washington based firm said they would credit my account. Oh, mail order, how great you are! Well, I decided to give mail order another try. Believe it or not! I, thus, ordered from a Pennsylvania firm. Because I had conducted business with them previously, I thought they would be reliable. Wrong! Wrong! Today, I received two of three items. The third item, it seems I was billed at $30 for an item marked at $20. In addition, the bill said the item was sold out; however, the item was not sent and the charge was not deducted. This ‘Takes the Cake’, people. The item was charged; the item was not received but we still dare to send half an order and charge for the rest. Well, does anyone know the recourse for charge cards? If so, please advise. After this, I cast my vote — NO MORE MAIL ORDERS!!!!! . . . Pam

– Rod & Susan Venger, Venger’s Orchids http://www.vengers.com/ ICQ # 54828117 Our IRC (Chat info) http://www.vengers.com/page.htm

Response:

Good rebuttel Rod,and one I hadn’t thought of before.Being in retail,I should have,cuz I deal with ‘difficult’ customers on occasion. Home Depot has a policy of a one year return policy on plants….but would any of you bring a shopping cart full of dead plants,without the pots?Or reciepts??It happened just two days ago,I was there and all I could do was a computer search to try and find the prices.I would rather go back and pay 3.50 for a flat of pansys then go thru that!!! Kim

Response:

Well, folks, do you really want to order by mail? Yes, email is easy and results are immediate, but do you know who is at the other end of your transaction? It seems that reputable (?) businesses will screw you if they can. Early in November, I ordered two vanilla orchid plants, a weather station, and an extra transmitter for my greenhouse. In order to ship the orchid plants, the company said they had to send the extra transmitter but did not have the weather station in stock. So, after two months, I never received the the vanilla orchid plants; I returned the weather sensor as it meant nothing without the weather station. Then miraculously, the weather station arrived…but still no Vanilla orchids. Two months later the Washington based firm said they would credit my account. Oh, mail order, how great you are! Well, I decided to give mail order another try. Believe it or not! I, thus, ordered from a Pennsylvania firm. Because I had conducted business with them previously, I thought they would be reliable. Wrong! Wrong! Today, I received two of three items. The third item, it seems I was billed at $30 for an item marked at $20. In addition, the bill said the item was sold out; however, the item was not sent and the charge was not deducted. This ‘Takes the Cake’, people. The item was charged; the item was not received but we still dare to send half an order and charge for the rest. Well, does anyone know the recourse for charge cards? If so, please advise. After this, I cast my vote — NO MORE MAIL ORDERS!!!!! . . . Pam

Response:

Show or Grow ?

admin — Thu, 30 Dec 1999 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Or you could just do like I do, use a balanced fertilizer year around and the plants will still know when to bloom and when to grow. No problems with mixing, measuring, etc. After all, if you mix a combination of high N and high P, you end up with a balanced mix. Why not just _start_ with a balanced mix? Currently I use the dynagrow, but will try the jerry’s mix at some point when I run out of what I have. later, jimwatts Before you buy.

Response:

Hello, Jim, I am using the Jerry’s mix and that is my problem. They have a formula for growing and a formula for flowering. I am getting notable results. I am not sure that I can mix them. Dick Sharp

Response:

Inside scoop says that Jerry is working on a balanced formula. Don’t spread it around or at least don’t say I told you *G* K Barrett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Or you could just do like I do, use a balanced fertilizer year around and the plants will still know when to bloom and when to grow. No problems with mixing, measuring, etc. After all, if you mix a combination of high N and high P, you end up with a balanced mix. Why not just _start_ with a balanced mix? Currently I use the dynagrow, but will try the jerry’s mix at some point when I run out of what I have. later, jimwatts Before you buy. Hello, Jim, I am using the Jerry’s mix and that is my problem. They have a formula for growing and a formula for flowering. I am getting notable results. I am not sure that I can mix them. Dick Sharp

Response:

I am interested in how to feed orchid plants that either getting ready to bloom or in bloom that are also producing new growth. Normaly I would feed with high Nitrogen for growth and less nitrogen and maby a boost of Phosphoric acid for blooming. With plants that are doing boath, how do I feed them ? Thanks Dick Sharp Oklahoma Orchid Societry

Response:

Dick, you could either alternate fertilizers with each application (I would recommend using a weakly/weekly or super-weakly/every-watering approach with this. Another possibility is to create a more "balanced" mixture by mixing half high-nitro fertilizer and half high-phosphate fertilizer. For instance, I try to fertilize with every watering, and that calls for 1/2 a tsp. of high nitro for grow fertilizer or 1/2 tsp. of high phosphate for bloom boosting. So, I just put 1/4 teaspoon of high nitro and 1/4 teaspoon of high phosphate to a gallon of water…and presto! semi-"balanced" fertilizer. — Prem – Animator, programmer, and orchid and fossil nut extraordinaire… – DNRC Title: Minister of Lightwave 3d Plugin Design Foolishness – Home – http://www.PremDesign.com "We in our foolishness thought we were wise He played the fool and He opened our eyes We in our weakness believed we were strong He became nothing to show we were wrong." "God’s Own Fool" – Michael Card

Response:

For instance, I try to fertilize with every watering, and that calls for 1/2 a tsp. of high nitro for grow fertilizer or 1/2 tsp. of high phosphate for bloom boosting. So, I just put 1/4 teaspoon of high nitro and 1/4 teaspoon of high phosphate to a gallon of water…and presto! semi-"balanced" fertilizer.

I should qualify this recipe with the fact that the fertilizer I use calls for mixing to these proportions. Mix the fertilizers according to your label instructions. — Prem – Animator, programmer, and orchid and fossil nut extraordinaire… – DNRC Title: Minister of Lightwave 3d Plugin Design Foolishness – Home – http://www.PremDesign.com "We in our foolishness thought we were wise He played the fool and He opened our eyes We in our weakness believed we were strong He became nothing to show we were wrong." "God’s Own Fool" – Michael Card

Response:

Shipping to PR

admin — Thu, 18 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have shipped many plants out of state and have had many o’ boxes shipped to me with blatant writing on them. It is not a common occurance, but two shipments out of (20 or so??!!) is worth bitching about IMO. Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Scott, Maybe it’s just you…you didn’t ever happen to date anyone at the Ag dept, did you? Nope, I ship to CA also and have no problems. I also label the outside of my boxes as being "Live Plants". I didn’t date anyone at the AG dept.! ) Regards, Jen

Response:

Scott, You make a good point; it doesn’t really matter how often something like this happens, *whenever* it happens it’s a huge pain! I hope my joking comment about the problem *just being you* didn’t offend-it wasn’t meant to . Hope you don’t have to suffer through something like this again! And all you others who’ve shipped and had no trouble-let us know when you get bit by the bureaucracy bug, ok? Karen I have shipped many plants out of state and have had many o’ boxes shipped to me with blatant writing on them. It is not a common occurance, but two shipments out of (20 or so??!!) is worth bitching about IMO. Scott

Before you buy.

Response:

Hi, Is anybody aware of any special shipping restrictions to Puerto Rico from the US mainland? Any import/export conditions? I am talking about orchid plants going from Virginia to PR by way of US Priority mail. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Al

Response:

I’ve never had a problem with my normal, domestic treatment, Al. In the summer, I highly recommend next-day shipping into areas of that much heat. — Ray Barkalow – First Rays Orchids Secure On-Line Ordering! http://www.firstrays.com

Response:

Al, Just pack and ship. But be careful that you don’t overdo it. The PR authorities don’t mind small shipments here and there. But remember that it’s an island and therefore it’s ecosystem is vulnerable to imported pests and such. They’ve told me that they’ll leave me alone as long as I keep it reasonable. A box with a dozen plants, ok. A dozen boxes with a dozen plants might bring them down on you. -Rod- Rod & Susan Venger, Venger’s Orchids http://www.vengers.com/ ICQ # 54828117 Our IRC (Chat info) http://www.vengers.com/page.htm

Response:

Here is what I have learned from private emails and my visit to the post master in Leesburg. First the post master tells me that Plants can be mailed to Puerto Rico by priority ands the post office does not restrict them, except for plants covered in publication 14 "Prohibitions and Restrictions on Mailing Animals, Plants, and Related Matter". She is getting me a copy of #14 because she did not have one. She tells me that it is the USDA that will seize packages for inspection if they have suspicions that what’s inside the box should not be going to where it is going. (they might be pulled for inspection by the USDA to look for insects.) Apparently there are local regions all over the US, not just the islands, where this can happen and it happens at random depending on a variety of factors. I have never had it happen that I know of. A person from PR wrote to tell me that the box will be stopped for an agricultural inspection unless I don’t mark the box as having live plants. And finally the customer told me to ship bare root. Al – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Is anybody aware of any special shipping restrictions to Puerto Rico from the US mainland? Any import/export conditions? I am talking about orchid plants going from Virginia to PR by way of US Priority mail. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Al Al, Just pack and ship. But be careful that you don’t overdo it. The PR authorities don’t mind small shipments here and there. But remember that it’s an island and therefore it’s ecosystem is vulnerable to imported pests and such. They’ve told me that they’ll leave me alone as long as I keep it reasonable. A box with a dozen plants, ok. A dozen boxes with a dozen plants might bring them down on you. -Rod- Rod & Susan Venger, Venger’s Orchids http://www.vengers.com/ ICQ # 54828117 Our IRC (Chat info) http://www.vengers.com/page.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is what I have learned from private emails and my visit to the post master in Leesburg. First the post master tells me that Plants can be mailed to Puerto Rico by priority ands the post office does not restrict them, except for plants covered in publication 14 "Prohibitions and Restrictions on Mailing Animals, Plants, and Related Matter". She is getting me a copy of #14 because she did not have one. She tells me that it is the USDA that will seize packages for inspection if they have suspicions that what’s inside the box should not be going to where it is going. (they might be pulled for inspection by the USDA to look for insects.) Apparently there are local regions all over the US, not just the islands, where this can happen and it happens at random depending on a variety of factors. I have never had it happen that I know of. A person from PR wrote to tell me that the box will be stopped for an agricultural inspection unless I don’t mark the box as having live plants. And finally the customer told me to ship bare root. Al

Interesting info, Al. We ship with the boxes labeled and as far as I know, no shipment has ever been inspected. Arizona, now, there’s another story altogether -Rod- Rod & Susan Venger, Venger’s Orchids http://www.vengers.com/ ICQ # 54828117 Our IRC (Chat info) http://www.vengers.com/page.htm

Response:

And ummmm, CALIFORNIA! Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting info, Al. We ship with the boxes labeled and as far as I know, no shipment has ever been inspected. Arizona, now, there’s another story altogether -Rod- Rod & Susan Venger, Venger’s Orchids http://www.vengers.com/ ICQ # 54828117 Our IRC (Chat info) http://www.vengers.com/page.htm

Response:

Hmmm… I’ve shipped to California and Arizona – complete with "Live Orchid Plants (etc)" labels…no problem. — Ray Barkalow – First Rays Orchids Secure On-Line Ordering! http://www.firstrays.com

Response:

I have never had a problem shipping to either California or Arizona. And mine are also labeled as live orchids. Al

Response:

Scott, Maybe it’s just you…you didn’t ever happen to date anyone at the Ag dept, did you? (I am joking here-don’t take me seriously ) Karen Before you buy.

Response:

Scott, Maybe it’s just you…you didn’t ever happen to date anyone at the Ag dept, did you?

Nope, I ship to CA also and have no problems. I also label the outside of my boxes as being "Live Plants". I didn’t date anyone at the AG dept.! ) Regards, Jen

Response:

Scott, Have any shipments of ours to you ever looked like they’ve been tampered with? -Rod- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And ummmm, CALIFORNIA! Scott Interesting info, Al. We ship with the boxes labeled and as far as I know, no shipment has ever been inspected. Arizona, now, there’s another story altogether -Rod- Rod & Susan Venger, Venger’s Orchids http://www.vengers.com/ ICQ # 54828117 Our IRC (Chat info) http://www.vengers.com/page.htm

– Rod & Susan Venger, Venger’s Orchids http://www.vengers.com/ ICQ # 54828117 Our IRC (Chat info) http://www.vengers.com/page.htm

Response:

No, Only 2 shipments have been held. They have not been mistreated or tampered with, just held. One was from a commercial grower (located in the same county!!) and the other was the one I had the little tirade about before. No shipments from you, Al, Oak Hill, or anywhere else have stopped. Sorta weird, as neither one should have been. I couldn’t imagine why they would need to inspect plants from the same county, and the other shipment was held erronously. It seems that the shipments that have been held are those that should be least in question. Weird. Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Scott, Have any shipments of ours to you ever looked like they’ve been tampered with? -Rod-