The Orchid Garden

Help with lighting situation- this is wierd!

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all, Just wanted to follow up on a post from a month ago. I reported that with these 40 watt sunlight bulbs my plant leaves were starting to turn purple. Well it is getting even more interesting now. There are 40 watt bulbs and there are 4 per shelf. I had a Vanda seedling that was of dark purple parentage that came from RF with green foliage. It is now dark purple foliage all over and the plant appears to be just fine. Plant was about 12 inches from the light at the tips. The plant is almost 100% dark purple and still doing fine.

A foot is way to far away.  you should have the top of the plant no more than 2” from the tubes. If i did my math right the light is 64 times britter at 2 inches than it is at a foot  Although it isn’t readily apparent to the human eye these bulbs are extremly blue(as is sunlight). They are intended to do make colours look normal,   CRI   is Colour Rendering Index , 100 is sunlight, so 90 is very good ( high pressure sodiums hve a CRI of 27).  However light for looking at plants and light for growing plants isn’t the same. Under gro-lux, grow’n’sho ect.  the plants will look funny and the colours of the flowers may look washed out,  but they will grow faster, stronger, and bloom more prolificly.  Some of the lighting companies are now useing some thing called PAR(Photosyntheticly Active Radiation) that tells you how much of the light is useable by the plants.  A good PAR value would be in the 35% -45% range.

Response:

The plants all seem just fine, but it just really freaks me out that it is the Vandas that are showing the strongest effect of high light while the Paphs are not changing (but the Paphs are all double factor vinis which could have an effect.)

The only thing I can think of (i.e., this is a wild guess) is that there’s something peculiar to the chemistry of the vandas that is reacting to some part of the spectrum of the lamps.  FWIW, I’m having a similar experience in that an Ascovandoritis is reacting similarly under my fluos (a mix of things, not sure what and I’m not where they are to check).  The weirdest thing is that it seems to color up and fade depending on how well watered it is.  More water, more color. When it dries out, the color fades dramatically.  I can’t believe it’s getting "too much" light in general so I figure something else is going on.

Response:

I am also using those lamps from Home Depot but at about a 40% level, my other lamps are cool white or daylight regulars. My light intensity runs between 400 and 600 foot candles and I have noticed some purpleing of  leaves on my darker flowering orchids and those that have red in the bloom color. If it bothers you try switching half of your lamps out to cool whites or daylights maybe this will give you a better wavelength balance. Dusty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all, Just wanted to follow up on a post from a month ago. I reported that with these 40 watt sunlight bulbs my plant leaves were starting to turn purple. Well it is getting even more interesting now. There are 40 watt bulbs and there are 4 per shelf. I had a Vanda seedling that was of dark purple parentage that came from RF with green foliage. It is now dark purple foliage all over and the plant appears to be just fine. Plant was about 12 inches from the light at the tips. The plant is almost 100% dark purple and still doing fine. The Kasem’s Delight ‘Robert’ full grown plants have some purple blotching on the top leaves now and the newest sets of leaves are getting almost an inch longer than what were the top leaves when I got the plants 6 weeks ago. Keep in mind these are mature plants coming from a top nursery. Longer leaves now under indoor growing conditions are a major surprise. Some of my Amaryllis bulbs I put under there are also turning purple foliage wise and the things are growing like weeds and putting out extra spikes. All this time the vinicolor Paphs are growing incredibly fast and not showing any signs of receiving excess light and they are about as far from the light as the Vandas. My Phal Hilo Lip clone is growing super fast with a new leaf coming on after my owning it for only 4 weeks. In short, my plants are growing at a pace I have never seen before and full size Vandas appear to be getting more than enough light from a non-HID indoor lighting system. This is great, but wierd! My only concern is the high level of purple pigment many of the plants are showing. This is not normal. And it is too soon for me to reasonably conclude it is not having a negative impact. Anyone else use these "sunlight" bulbs before? I got them at Home Depot for $6 each and they come in orange sleeves. Tom.

Response:

I only recently have started with orchids, but have grown indoor plants for years when living in NYC – I needed the extra light as much Having said that, have you all ruled out sunburn????? To go from an opaque greenhouse to sitting under a bare bulb might be mimicking a spectrum reaction similar to sunburning a new plant in the summer for the first time….. $.02 Hey all, Just wanted to follow up on a post from a month ago. I reported that with these 40 watt sunlight bulbs my plant leaves were starting to turn purple. Well it is getting even more interesting now. There are 40 watt bulbs and there are 4 per shelf. I had a Vanda seedling that was of dark purple parentage that came from RF with green foliage. It is now dark purple foliage all over and the plant appears to be just fine. Plant was about 12 inches from the light at the tips. The plant is almost 100% dark purple and still doing fine.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In short, my plants are growing at a pace I have never seen before and full size Vandas appear to be getting more than enough light from a non-HID indoor lighting system. This is great, but wierd! My only concern is the high level of purple pigment many of the plants are showing. This is not normal. And it is too soon for me to reasonably conclude it is not having a negative impact. Anyone else use these "sunlight" bulbs before? I got them at Home Depot for $6 each and they come in orange sleeves. Tom.

Response:

I use these bulbs and get purple vein like markings on my dendrobiums.  On the parts of the leaves that wrap around the canes.  All my orchid plants seem to like them, as they are growing very well.  This is my first year with them on my orchids, but I have used them for years on my aquatic flourescent bulbs when these cheap sunshine bulbs work great.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …snip… As for the brand name, I found one of the sleeves so here goes with some specs, Sunshine by GE 40 watt bulb Avg. initial lumens- 2250 Color temp. 5000deg K. 90 CRI …snip I have used a combination of these lights with GE grow lights and noticed the pigment you mention on my phals.  I didn’t see any of the pigment on my paphs or smallish catts though. The sunshine bulbs are the same as GE Colour 50’s that have a very even spectral output that makes them good for any area that needs balanced light output, e.g. paint stores, printing companies etc.  I am hoping to get a new scanner over the next couple of weeks and I can send you a scanned copy of the spectral output from the GE literature if you like.  Just let me know. I did like this combination but have switched to MH lights because of my increased taste for higher light plants. Martin.

Response:

The Kasem’s Delight ‘Robert’ full grown plants have some purple blotching on the top leaves now and the newest sets of leaves are getting almost an inch longer than what were the top leaves when I got the plants 6 weeks ago.

Is the posture of these new leaves similar to those it had when you got it?  If they are growing up, toward the light, instead of arcing over, it suggests they’re not really getting enough light.  I’m not sure if this is included in the term "etoliation" (or if that just refers to leggy stems), but plants will often grow larger than "normal" leaves under less-than-ideal light conditions, presumably in an effort to maximize their ability to catch what light there is. But these tubes sound interesting.  Since I also grow at least half my plants under fluorescents, I’ll have to check them out.  If you mentioned a brand name, I missed it.  Could you repost that?

Response:

The Kasem’s Delight ‘Robert’ full grown plants have some purple blotching on the top leaves now and the newest sets of leaves are getting almost an inch longer than what were the top leaves when I got the plants 6 weeks ago. Is the posture of these new leaves similar to those it had when you got it?  If they are growing up, toward the light, instead of arcing over, it suggests they’re not really getting enough light.  I’m not sure if this is included in the term "etoliation" (or if that just refers to leggy stems), but plants will often grow larger than "normal" leaves under less-than-ideal light conditions, presumably in an effort to maximize their ability to catch what light there is.

Hi, Just double checked and yes the leaves are growing in the normal fashion. It is just freaking me out some. I have grown orchids since I was 9 years old ( nearly 20 years now- kinda scary ) and I have had all sorts of conditions from greenhouses, to several different indoor setups to windowsills, and I have never seen anything like this before. And I think it must be the light because one of the Kasem’s Delights is about 2 inches taller than the other and the taller one shows more purple pigmentation than the other one. Both were identically pure green when I got them a few weeks ago. As for the brand name, I found one of the sleeves so here goes with some specs, Sunshine by GE 40 watt bulb Avg. initial lumens- 2250 Color temp. 5000deg K. 90 CRI Not sure what those figures mean, but maybe that will shed some light on the matter ( hahahaha ) The bulb is advertised to "Simulates noonday summer sun. Ideal for color critical areas or where sunlight is at a minimum." The plants all seem just fine, but it just really freaks me out that it is the Vandas that are showing the strongest effect of high light while the Paphs are not changing (but the Paphs are all double factor vinis which could have an effect.) The speed with which the plants reacted is also a bit surprising. Thanks to you and all other posters for your thoughts. One of the great things about orchids is that I never know what to expect from them next. Just as long as I do not kill them in the process… Tom.  

Response:

…snip… As for the brand name, I found one of the sleeves so here goes with some specs, Sunshine by GE 40 watt bulb Avg. initial lumens- 2250 Color temp. 5000deg K. 90 CRI

…snip I have used a combination of these lights with GE grow lights and noticed the pigment you mention on my phals.  I didn’t see any of the pigment on my paphs or smallish catts though. The sunshine bulbs are the same as GE Colour 50’s that have a very even spectral output that makes them good for any area that needs balanced light output, e.g. paint stores, printing companies etc.  I am hoping to get a new scanner over the next couple of weeks and I can send you a scanned copy of the spectral output from the GE literature if you like.  Just let me know. I did like this combination but have switched to MH lights because of my increased taste for higher light plants. Martin.

Response:

Tom, I also grow under a light stand using a mix of warm white and grow-lux bulbs.  Some of my phals and paphs have very purple leaves, especially on the undersides and edges. Several of my paphs is purple veined (P Charles Sladden(glaucophyllum x bellatulum) and P (haynaldiarium x delantii).  I haven’t bloomed these yet but looking at some of the descriptions on Jay Phal’s (very fine) http://www.orchidspecies.com encyclopedia they seem to have a fair amount of reddish color in their background.  The phals with purple leaves also tend to have reddish or purple blooms but not all of them, one of the plants with a fair amount of purple in the leaves has a pure white bloom. I also found a pretty dramatic increase in growth rates under the lights. This year the winter blooming Phals have done great, one has put out three spikes, another has put out a multi-branched spike that is twice the size of the inflorescence it had when I purchased it last winter. Just waiting to see how they bloom out (hoping they aren’t leggy). Phals and Paphs seem to like the lights, but my mini-catts have only responded slightly.  The growth still seems to follow seasons with sprints and rests.  Forget the high light species they just hang on under the flourescents. I’m sure the wavelengths of the bulbs has something to do with it, the same plants did not show as much reddish purple in the leaves when I purchased them out of a green house. William

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all, Just wanted to follow up on a post from a month ago. I reported that with these 40 watt sunlight bulbs my plant leaves were starting to turn purple. Well it is getting even more interesting now. There are 40 watt bulbs and there are 4 per shelf. I had a Vanda seedling that was of dark purple parentage that came from RF with green foliage. It is now dark purple foliage all over and the plant appears to be just fine. Plant was about 12 inches from the light at the tips. The plant is almost 100% dark purple and still doing fine. The Kasem’s Delight ‘Robert’ full grown plants have some purple blotching on the top leaves now and the newest sets of leaves are getting almost an inch longer than what were the top leaves when I got the plants 6 weeks ago. Keep in mind these are mature plants coming from a top nursery. Longer leaves now under indoor growing conditions are a major surprise. Some of my Amaryllis bulbs I put under there are also turning purple foliage wise and the things are growing like weeds and putting out extra spikes. All this time the vinicolor Paphs are growing incredibly fast and not showing any signs of receiving excess light and they are about as far from the light as the Vandas. My Phal Hilo Lip clone is growing super fast with a new leaf coming on after my owning it for only 4 weeks. In short, my plants are growing at a pace I have never seen before and full size Vandas appear to be getting more than enough light from a non-HID indoor lighting system. This is great, but wierd! My only concern is the high level of purple pigment many of the plants are showing. This is not normal. And it is too soon for me to reasonably conclude it is not having a negative impact. Anyone else use these "sunlight" bulbs before? I got them at Home Depot for $6 each and they come in orange sleeves. Tom.

Response:

Hey all, Just wanted to follow up on a post from a month ago. I reported that with these 40 watt sunlight bulbs my plant leaves were starting to turn purple. Well it is getting even more interesting now. There are 40 watt bulbs and there are 4 per shelf. I had a Vanda seedling that was of dark purple parentage that came from RF with green foliage. It is now dark purple foliage all over and the plant appears to be just fine. Plant was about 12 inches from the light at the tips. The plant is almost 100% dark purple and still doing fine. The Kasem’s Delight ‘Robert’ full grown plants have some purple blotching on the top leaves now and the newest sets of leaves are getting almost an inch longer than what were the top leaves when I got the plants 6 weeks ago. Keep in mind these are mature plants coming from a top nursery. Longer leaves now under indoor growing conditions are a major surprise. Some of my Amaryllis bulbs I put under there are also turning purple foliage wise and the things are growing like weeds and putting out extra spikes. All this time the vinicolor Paphs are growing incredibly fast and not showing any signs of receiving excess light and they are about as far from the light as the Vandas. My Phal Hilo Lip clone is growing super fast with a new leaf coming on after my owning it for only 4 weeks. In short, my plants are growing at a pace I have never seen before and full size Vandas appear to be getting more than enough light from a non-HID indoor lighting system. This is great, but wierd! My only concern is the high level of purple pigment many of the plants are showing. This is not normal. And it is too soon for me to reasonably conclude it is not having a negative impact. Anyone else use these "sunlight" bulbs before? I got them at Home Depot for $6 each and they come in orange sleeves. Tom.

Response:

Is light intensity the only reason the purple pigment would appear?  Could wave length combination weighted differently than other lamps cause this. A plant can make anthocyanin more easily/abundantly in certain temperature ranges than in others. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that different wave lengths of light and/or temperatures effect how a plant assimilates available nutrients. You have altered the balance of things in your growing area with these high-falutin lights.  Stand back.  That Vanda is libel to explode.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all, Just wanted to follow up on a post from a month ago. I reported that with these 40 watt sunlight bulbs my plant leaves were starting to turn purple. Well it is getting even more interesting now. There are 40 watt bulbs and there are 4 per shelf. I had a Vanda seedling that was of dark purple parentage that came from RF with green foliage. It is now dark purple foliage all over and the plant appears to be just fine. Plant was about 12 inches from the light at the tips. The plant is almost 100% dark purple and still doing fine. The Kasem’s Delight ‘Robert’ full grown plants have some purple blotching on the top leaves now and the newest sets of leaves are getting almost an inch longer than what were the top leaves when I got the plants 6 weeks ago. Keep in mind these are mature plants coming from a top nursery. Longer leaves now under indoor growing conditions are a major surprise. Some of my Amaryllis bulbs I put under there are also turning purple foliage wise and the things are growing like weeds and putting out extra spikes. All this time the vinicolor Paphs are growing incredibly fast and not showing any signs of receiving excess light and they are about as far from the light as the Vandas. My Phal Hilo Lip clone is growing super fast with a new leaf coming on after my owning it for only 4 weeks. In short, my plants are growing at a pace I have never seen before and full size Vandas appear to be getting more than enough light from a non-HID indoor lighting system. This is great, but wierd! My only concern is the high level of purple pigment many of the plants are showing. This is not normal. And it is too soon for me to reasonably conclude it is not having a negative impact. Anyone else use these "sunlight" bulbs before? I got them at Home Depot for $6 each and they come in orange sleeves. Tom.

Response:

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