The Orchid Garden

black caterpillars

Question:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain;         charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have lots of small black fuzzy caterpillars skeletonizing my sunflower = leaves.  I have searched all over the net to find out what they are.  = Anyone got any ideas?

Probably larvae of Chlosyne, meaning one of the Crescents (small, nicely patterned Nymphalid butterflies). Doug Yanega                              Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum               Univ. of California Riverside, CA 92521  909-787-4315 (opinions are mine, not UCR’s)            http://insects.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is     the true method" – Herman Melville, Moby Dick

Response:

If they have yellow also they are killers. Spinker 7 to get rid of them. I have lots of small black fuzzy caterpillars skeletonizing my sunflower leaves.  I have searched all over the net to find out what they are. Anyone got any ideas?

Response:

I have been observing the moths at night and noticed that there are a few different sized hummingbird moths.  One seems to be about 3 inches long, second is about 2 inches long, third is about one inch, not including the proboscis. Which of the hornworms would produce the largest moth?  AND, are there other hornworms other than tobacco and tomato? What would produce the smaller of the three I see? Victoria

Response:

Okay here’s a tough one for you. What caterpillars are dangerous for humans to handle? I’ll narrow the field to the continental US if you will narrow to which ones are found where. Also do these nasty caterpillars grow up to be something really nice and wonderful? I know there is a caterpillar that has a saddle-like marking on its back and that one shouldn’t be handled and I think it is found in the eastern US.

There are a number of such caterpillars. They generally appear to be hairy, or with branched spines. The one you mention is the Saddleback caterpillar, found widely in the US East of the Great Plains. The adult is rather drab. But others have attractive adults: The Io moth (also E. half of the US) is an attractive yellowish moth (the female with brown front wings) with an eyespot on the hind wings. In the same family the Buck moths (two species, one East and one Southwest) should not be handled in the caterpillar stage. Ditto the sheep moth (Rockies to Pacific). The caterpillars all have branched spines. All of these are attractive as adults. Not surprising, they are related to cecropia and luna moths. The puss caterpillar is a hairy one which can cause serious problems from dermatitis to fever, some paralysis and nausea. It looks something like a large, hairy slug. There are others, of course. Just as a general rule, you should use a lot of caution in picking up hairy caterpillars or those with branched spines. Again, the woolybears, gypsy moth and tent caterpillar are harmless as far as stinging is concerned. Regards, Bill — Center for Room Temperature Confusion

Response:

The puss caterpillar is a hairy one which can cause serious problems from dermatitis to fever, some paralysis and nausea. It looks something like a large, hairy slug.

Ha!  You just reminded me, I bought a really neat guide, Caterpillars of Eastern Forests, put together by Forest Health Technology Enterprise Team out of Morgantown, WV.  I bought it via mail from the USDA.  It’s really a neat book!  The puss caterpillar (what a yucky name) is the Flannel Moth in adulthood, either Southern or Yellow. They have a nasty sting, it says, like their kin, the slug caterpillars.  I’ve found more caterpillars in this book that I have seen, but have been unable to identify…the pictures are wonderful. And the variety!  Yes, I am a bit deranged about nature and field guides, but it’s a harmless kind of deranged <G. — Ann Gardening in Zone 6a Just south of Boston, MA

Response:

I guess the wild orchid question had better go to rec.gardens.orchids.  I’m fairly certain that there are at least two wild orchids that are night bloomers in the eastern US. Bev The Potting Shed http://www.vabch.com/gmb/index.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, I know from what has been said in the past that there are many different sphinx -type moths and many other hornworms. So which one pollinates the endangered wild orchids Which endangered wild orchids in which country? There aren’t any in the US that I’m aware of which are pollinated by sphinxes. and which hornworm produces the true hummingbird moth. There are three species in one genus that can be called "The Hummingbird Moth" (though the OFFICIAL "common name" list awards the name to _Hemaris thysbe_). The larvae typically feed on honeysuckles, snowberry, and blueberry. Doug Yanega                              Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum               Univ. of California Riverside, CA 92521  909-787-4315 (opinions are mine, not UCR’s)           http://insects.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is    the true method" – Herman Melville, Moby Dick

Response:

If they have yellow also they are killers.

Caterpillars that have black and yellow are killers? How so? Obviously, all caterpillars kill the foliage they feed on (but not usually the plants that they feed on.) Some caterpillars have stinging hairs, but they aren’t always yellow and black (they come in many colors), and not all yellow and black caterpillars have stinging hairs. Caterpillar stings are painful, but rarely fatal. You might give a "South Park" invective when stung, but unless you are Kenny (i.e., allergic), you are probably safe. [If anyone needs me to explain that last paragraph, I will] So please, elaborate. You must have had a bad encounter with some black and yellow caterpillar. Any details on that? A puss caterpillar perhaps? Oh, those are wicked. [No, people, I am not making that up. Megalopyge is the genus off the puss caterpillar. Not a rare insect in the S.E. quarter of the US] Spinker 7 to get rid of them.

Spinker = Sprinkle? I always use 14, and dilute it by half. I don’t think that the caterpillars mentioned in the original post are anything to worry about in these terms… Regards, Bill — Center for Room Temperature Confusion

Response:

Ditto what Bill said (thanks). Doug Yanega                              Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum               Univ. of California Riverside, CA 92521  909-787-4315 (opinions are mine, not UCR’s)            http://insects.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is     the true method" – Herman Melville, Moby Dick

Response:

Yes, I know from what has been said in the past that there are many different sphinx -type moths and many other hornworms. So which one pollinates the endangered wild orchids

Which endangered wild orchids in which country? There aren’t any in the US that I’m aware of which are pollinated by sphinxes. and which hornworm produces the true hummingbird moth.

There are three species in one genus that can be called "The Hummingbird Moth" (though the OFFICIAL "common name" list awards the name to _Hemaris thysbe_). The larvae typically feed on honeysuckles, snowberry, and blueberry. Doug Yanega                              Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum               Univ. of California Riverside, CA 92521  909-787-4315 (opinions are mine, not UCR’s)            http://insects.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is     the true method" – Herman Melville, Moby Dick

Response:

Hahaha, I just put up a message of "Paging Doug, Paging Doug, please report to rec.gardens."  I LOVE having him on here. Victoria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Poor Doug, I emailed him and told him he was need on rec.gardens too! He probably thought there was something really big going on and instead we are just back to the old hornworm thing. (He could have been on vacation!) I really hope he does not tire of us picking his brain. Of course he’ll probably start sending us requests for our CC numbers so he can charge us tuition! Bev The Potting Shed http://www.vabch.com/gmb/index.htm Victoria: Doug seems to have been absent the last couple of days. He may miss your post, so I will try to answer it. I just emailed him with a paranoid email!  Thought he was ignoring me. And kudos for enjoying your garden (and insect life) at night. Not everyone does this. Both my  husband and I have incredible interest in night insects and spiders. We noticed that this year there is NO shortage of spiders.  On any given night we see a minimum of a hundred webs being built on a VERY SMALL property. On each of my windows, there are at least three spider webs being built, so we take a light and watch them from the air conditioning.  Of course I also see the tons and tons of grasshoppers AGAIN this year chewing down on the nightshades. Nothing is working this year, again.  I am petrified to even go outside any more.  They are literally everywhere on everything, walls, ground, grass, plants, planters, everywhere.  Giant sized, too.  Well, I wish I had room for a screen house because I would sit out there with my flashlight all night watching the activity in the night garden.  All my night blooming ornamental’s are planted not only for their beauty, but for their attractiveness to these beautiful moths.  I will try to get some photos of them and put them on my website. Victoria

Response:

Poor Doug, I emailed him and told him he was need on rec.gardens too! He probably thought there was something really big going on and instead we are just back to the old hornworm thing. (He could have been on vacation!) I really hope he does not tire of us picking his brain. Of course he’ll probably start sending us requests for our CC numbers so he can charge us tuition! Bev The Potting Shed http://www.vabch.com/gmb/index.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Victoria: Doug seems to have been absent the last couple of days. He may miss your post, so I will try to answer it. I just emailed him with a paranoid email!  Thought he was ignoring me. And kudos for enjoying your garden (and insect life) at night. Not everyone does this. Both my  husband and I have incredible interest in night insects and spiders. We noticed that this year there is NO shortage of spiders.  On any given night we see a minimum of a hundred webs being built on a VERY SMALL property. On each of my windows, there are at least three spider webs being built, so we take a light and watch them from the air conditioning.  Of course I also see the tons and tons of grasshoppers AGAIN this year chewing down on the nightshades. Nothing is working this year, again.  I am petrified to even go outside any more.  They are literally everywhere on everything, walls, ground, grass, plants, planters, everywhere.  Giant sized, too.  Well, I wish I had room for a screen house because I would sit out there with my flashlight all night watching the activity in the night garden.  All my night blooming ornamental’s are planted not only for their beauty, but for their attractiveness to these beautiful moths.  I will try to get some photos of them and put them on my website. Victoria

Response:

Okay here’s a tough one for you. What caterpillars are dangerous for humans to handle? I’ll narrow the field to the continental US if you will narrow to which ones are found where. Also do these nasty caterpillars grow up to be something really nice and wonderful? I know there is a caterpillar that has a saddle-like marking on its back and that one shouldn’t be handled and I think it is found in the eastern US.  Oh, help I really know nothing. (We won’t even think about the number of "parsley worms" I killed because they were eating my parsley before I knew better!) Bev The Potting Shed http://www.vabch.com/gmb/index.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ditto what Bill said (thanks). Doug Yanega                              Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum               Univ. of California Riverside, CA 92521  909-787-4315 (opinions are mine, not UCR’s)           http://insects.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is    the true method" – Herman Melville, Moby Dick

Response:

Victoria: Doug seems to have been absent the last couple of days. He may miss your post, so I will try to answer it.

I just emailed him with a paranoid email!  Thought he was ignoring me. And kudos for enjoying your garden (and insect life) at night. Not everyone does this.

Both my  husband and I have incredible interest in night insects and spiders. We noticed that this year there is NO shortage of spiders.  On any given night we see a minimum of a hundred webs being built on a VERY SMALL property.  On each of my windows, there are at least three spider webs being built, so we take a light and watch them from the air conditioning.  Of course I also see the tons and tons of grasshoppers AGAIN this year chewing down on the nightshades. Nothing is working this year, again.  I am petrified to even go outside any more.  They are literally everywhere on everything, walls, ground, grass, plants, planters, everywhere.  Giant sized, too.  Well, I wish I had room for a screen house because I would sit out there with my flashlight all night watching the activity in the night garden.  All my night blooming ornamental’s are planted not only for their beauty, but for their attractiveness to these beautiful moths.  I will try to get some photos of them and put them on my website. Victoria

Response:

MUCH MORE! Paging Doug, Paging Doug, please report to rec.gardens! Victoria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, I know from what has been said in the past that there are many different sphinx -type moths and many other hornworms. So which one pollinates the endangered wild orchids and which hornworm produces the true hummingbird moth. Now that you have educated us on the fact that the tomato hornworm is found on the tobacco plant and the tobacco hornworm is found on the tomato plant! We want more!!! Bev The Potting Shed http://www.vabch.com/gmb/index.htm I have been observing the moths at night and noticed that there are a few different sized hummingbird moths.  One seems to be about 3 inches long, second is about 2 inches long, third is about one inch, not including the proboscis. Which of the hornworms would produce the largest moth?  AND, are there other hornworms other than tobacco and tomato? What would produce the smaller of the three I see? Victoria

Response:

In article

Victoria: Doug seems to have been absent the last couple of days. He may miss your post, so I will try to answer it. I have been observing the moths at night and noticed that there are a few different sized hummingbird moths.  One seems to be about 3 inches long, second is about 2 inches long, third is about one inch, not including the proboscis.

So we’re talking about Sphingid moths here, sphinx moths. There are probably dozens, if not hundreds of species in North America. Not all of them have the official common name of "hummingbird moth", though many have that kind of flight pattern. It wouldn’t be odd to see several species in your yard at one time, any more than it would be strange to see 4 or 5 different species of butterflies. The time of day might be different, but that’s about it. And kudos for enjoying your garden (and insect life) at night. Not everyone does this. There actually are *official* common names for many insects, BTW. Which of the hornworms would produce the largest moth?

Tobacco and tomato (both in the genus Manduca) are among the largest ’round here. The white-lined sphinx (Celerio lineata) is also quite large. And a bit prettier than its more well-known cousins. There are some other large ones, and a host of smaller species. Most are pretty danged big by "bug" standards, though. AND, are there other hornworms other than tobacco and tomato?

The larvae of many species in this group have the horn (some only have a spot where the horn should be) and could be called hornworms. That designation doesn’t always make it into the common name. The fact is, they don’t all *have* common names beyond the family level. And of those that do, some names are arcane, and you’d need a common name list to look them up. So those are not really "common" names, but semi-official informal names. What would produce the smaller of the three I see?

There are many species, most smaller than the tomato, tobacco and white-lined. It would be impossible for anyone to tell without them actually seeing the creatures. Even then, it might be necessary to kill the insect in order to identify it… Can you take pictures and post them to a website? If so, you could ask people in sci.bio.entomology.lepidoptera to take a look at them. Otherwise, just know them as sphinx moths… …and enjoy! Regards, Bill — Center for Room Temperature Confusion

Response:

Yes, I know from what has been said in the past that there are many different sphinx -type moths and many other hornworms. So which one pollinates the endangered wild orchids and which hornworm produces the true hummingbird moth. Now that you have educated us on the fact that the tomato hornworm is found on the tobacco plant and the tobacco hornworm is found on the tomato plant! We want more!!! Bev The Potting Shed http://www.vabch.com/gmb/index.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have been observing the moths at night and noticed that there are a few different sized hummingbird moths.  One seems to be about 3 inches long, second is about 2 inches long, third is about one inch, not including the proboscis. Which of the hornworms would produce the largest moth?  AND, are there other hornworms other than tobacco and tomato? What would produce the smaller of the three I see? Victoria

Response:

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