The Orchid Garden

Integrating Traditional Medicine

Question:

writes: David, I suspect this report IS real and true. I know that herbs can have an impact on viral load and CD4 counts. As can nutritional interventions. I’ve watched it happen time and time again!  I hope that this report is Fact and not another fiction.  

I believe it probably is a real report. Can you think how we might confirm its validity? I’ve passed it around to some friends in Africa and India, but not with the question as to the report’s validity. The reality is, the suppression of viral load and the increase in CD4 is not as dramatic as it is with combination therapy (at least not so far). So these people are basically getting some modest benefits, which is better than nothing. Many herbs can be used and have been traditionally to manage a variety of opportunistic infections. I don’t think hospitals in New York are going to run out and replace the stocks of TMP/SMX, clarithromycin or rifampin, tho.  No matter how little the benefit that may be had from these natural sources, the non disclosure of What is Working seems an intellectual crime.   There are lots of resources which can amplify vegetable resources and it’s long past time to put them to work.

I agree wholeheartedly!! Herbs that come to mind right off the bat that seem to work in combination include bitter melon, glycyrrhizin, curcumin, Andrographis paniculata, Buxus sempervirens. Micronutrient supplementation (a multi and a B complex) should form a core of support.   Even if these plants and possibly other sources are rare western technology can do wonders to propagate and make these scarce resources quite common.  Rare orchids are now sold in supermarkets because their propagation can be increased in a small lab.  The genes that produce the needed chemicals can be transferred to other species which can grow in more varied climates.  The Genetic Engineers would quite rightly have a field day with a truly useful medicinal plant. Millions can use these resources.

I agree here again. And some of these herbs are very common and hardy. What WOULD be good is to understand how these can be used in a number of different contexts: 1) To provide at least SOMETHING for many millions who have no access to the drugs (yet) due in great part to the genocidal avarice of the pharmaceutical industry;  I wonder what they will call the victory gardens? 2) To offset drug side effects in those who do have access;  True, there will be new sets of SFx to deal with.

Oh–yes. I meant that some herbs can offset HAART side effects. But yes, in some cases, the herbs themselves can have side effects. They are usually not nearly as severe as ARV can be but they must not be ignored. 3) To delay progression so that reaching 300 T cells takes longer and longer.  If counts can be kept that high would be nice!

Yes. People initially infected start with high counts and progress at variable rates. The point is to try to slow the rate as much as possible. 4) To augment currently available antiretroviral therapy, possibly allowing reduced dosages of some drugs or alternatives to be used in the "off" periods during STIs.  I’ve helped spread John James’ ATN since he allowed transmission after sending out his subscriptions.   Years of "Maybe" leave me still skeptical.

Well, of course. Maybe and skeptical are the cornerstones of evaluating. But I have seen people benefit, so I know that some of these interventions have value!! Evidence-based efforts such as that occurring now in many places in Africa, India and elsewhere, will give us some better data. But we still run into the thorny problems of A) patents not being available on many of these; B) the unwillingness to share indigenous information that Western companies might want to patent some portion of and screw the locals; C) availability of the herbs in habitats D) issues of potency and purity  Yes, there may be problems.  These problems can me addressed, and will be IF there is actually something to develop!

I think there is. Sadly, NIAID has steadfastly refused to look at these, despite repeated requests for them to do so. Not enough money in it. These are challenges that must be faced on an international level, just as AIDS must be.  I’d be willing to bet that enough interest already exists to get any needed work done.  

Sadly, there is interest but so far, not enough money. This is changing. But it has been a long, hard row to hoe.                 George M. Carter

Response:

(GMCarter) writes: They confirmed, for example, that  blood  tests to  monitor  the level of  immunity (CD4 and CD8 counts) of the patients, all of whom are  being treated exclusively with traditional medicines, had shown a marked increase in blood cell counts. Similarly, they said,  other laboratory investigations  conducted on the patients, such as viral load tests,  also showed a significant decrease in viral load. They also  reported a dramatic improvement in the patients’ clinical condition.

  This is an interesting preliminary report.  But a report that says that CD4 Tcells are increasing as well as viral load decreasing without saying what is doing this is just too tempting for comment.   The rest of the world is trying to find chemical compounds that achieve these aims and would like some help from the plant kingdom for these ends.  I only hope that this a REAL and TRUE report because it may mean that a corner has been turned in the battle against HIV.  This progress will make another Time Man of the Year for it’s leader(s). What is the question?       Gertrude Stein’s last words No one mouth is big enough to utter the whole thing.    Alan Watts On Display in the UK     http://www.web-gallery.co.uk

Response:

writes: David, I suspect this report IS real and true. I know that herbs can have an impact on viral load and CD4 counts. As can nutritional interventions. I’ve watched it happen time and time again!

  I hope that this report is Fact and not another fiction.   The reality is, the suppression of viral load and the increase in CD4 is not as dramatic as it is with combination therapy (at least not so far). So these people are basically getting some modest benefits, which is better than nothing. Many herbs can be used and have been traditionally to manage a variety of opportunistic infections. I don’t think hospitals in New York are going to run out and replace the stocks of TMP/SMX, clarithromycin or rifampin, tho.

  No matter how little the benefit that may be had from these natural sources, the non disclosure of What is Working seems an intellectual crime.   There are lots of resources which can amplify vegetable resources and it’s long past time to put them to work.    Even if these plants and possibly other sources are rare western technology can do wonders to propagate and make these scarce resources quite common.  Rare orchids are now sold in supermarkets because their propagation can be increased in a small lab.  The genes that produce the needed chemicals can be transferred to other species which can grow in more varied climates.  The Genetic Engineers would quite rightly have a field day with a truly useful medicinal plant. Millions can use these resources. What WOULD be good is to understand how these can be used in a number of different contexts: 1) To provide at least SOMETHING for many millions who have no access to the drugs (yet) due in great part to the genocidal avarice of the pharmaceutical industry;

  I wonder what they will call the victory gardens? 2) To offset drug side effects in those who do have access;

  True, there will be new sets of SFx to deal with. 3) To delay progression so that reaching 300 T cells takes longer and longer.

  If counts can be kept that high would be nice! 4) To augment currently available antiretroviral therapy, possibly allowing reduced dosages of some drugs or alternatives to be used in the "off" periods during STIs.

  I’ve helped spread John James’ ATN since he allowed transmission after sending out his subscriptions.   Years of "Maybe" leave me still skeptical. Evidence-based efforts such as that occurring now in many places in Africa, India and elsewhere, will give us some better data. But we still run into the thorny problems of A) patents not being available on many of these; B) the unwillingness to share indigenous information that Western companies might want to patent some portion of and screw the locals; C) availability of the herbs in habitats D) issues of potency and purity

  Yes, there may be problems.  These problems can me addressed, and will be IF there is actually something to develop! These are challenges that must be faced on an international level, just as AIDS must be.

  I’d be willing to bet that enough interest already exists to get any needed work done.   What is the question?       Gertrude Stein’s last words No one mouth is big enough to utter the whole thing.    Alan Watts On Display in the UK     http://www.web-gallery.co.uk

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (GMCarter) writes: They confirmed, for example, that  blood  tests to  monitor  the level of  immunity (CD4 and CD8 counts) of the patients, all of whom are  being treated exclusively with traditional medicines, had shown a marked increase in blood cell counts. Similarly, they said,  other laboratory investigations  conducted on the patients, such as viral load tests,  also showed a significant decrease in viral load. They also  reported a dramatic improvement in the patients’ clinical condition.  This is an interesting preliminary report.  But a report that says that CD4 Tcells are increasing as well as viral load decreasing without saying what is doing this is just too tempting for comment.   The rest of the world is trying to find chemical compounds that achieve these aims and would like some help from the plant kingdom for these ends.  I only hope that this a REAL and TRUE report because it may mean that a corner has been turned in the battle against HIV.  This progress will make another Time Man of the Year for it’s leader(s).

David, I suspect this report IS real and true. I know that herbs can have an impact on viral load and CD4 counts. As can nutritional interventions. I’ve watched it happen time and time again! The reality is, the suppression of viral load and the increase in CD4 is not as dramatic as it is with combination therapy (at least not so far). So these people are basically getting some modest benefits, which is better than nothing. Many herbs can be used and have been traditionally to manage a variety of opportunistic infections. I don’t think hospitals in New York are going to run out and replace the stocks of TMP/SMX, clarithromycin or rifampin, tho. What WOULD be good is to understand how these can be used in a number of different contexts: 1) To provide at least SOMETHING for many millions who have no access to the drugs (yet) due in great part to the genocidal avarice of the pharmaceutical industry; 2) To offset drug side effects in those who do have access; 3) To delay progression so that reaching 300 T cells takes longer and longer. 4) To augment currently available antiretroviral therapy, possibly allowing reduced dosages of some drugs or alternatives to be used in the "off" periods during STIs. Evidence-based efforts such as that occuring now in many places in Africa, India and elsewhere, will give us some better data. But we still run into the thorny problems of A) patents not being available on many of thse; B) the unwillingness to share indigenous information that Western companies might want to patent some portion of and screw the locals; C) availability of the herbs in habitats D) issues of potency and purity These are challenges that must be faced on an international level, just as AIDS must be.                 George M. Carter

Response:

I think this is an extremely important piece for overall management of HIV disease. A particularly good text is the Handbook of African Medicinal Plant by Maurice M.  Iwu, CRC Press, 1993. George M. Carter **** ‘Health-L [Zambia]‘ is an independent national forum supported by the Fondation du Present http://www.fdp.org This press release followed a successful Regional Committee Meeting of African Health Ministers. Some of the highlights of the meeting are contained in the article below. Regina Shakakata, WHO AFRO INTEGRATING TRADITIONAL MEDICINE INTO HEALTH SYSTEMS: THE EXAMPLE OF BURKINA FASO Ouagadougou – One of the six resolutions adopted by the just-concluded 50th session of  Health Ministers from the African Region of WHO in Ouagadougou called on Member States to consider the development of mechanisms and the establishment of institutions for enhancing the positive aspects of traditional medicine in their  health systems.   Burkina Faso, which  hosted the Health Ministers’ meeting for the first time from 28 August to 2 September 2000, appears to  provide  a good example of how this can be done. In Burkina Faso, there is a  health facility where Western science and African tradition are combining creatively and  with synergy  to restore hope, even life, to hundreds of  People Living With AIDS (PLWA) in  the  West African country of 13 million people. The health centre, run by a public-spirited organization has now enlisted 320 patients with AIDS since January 2000, some of these patients are in hospital at the present time. Here,  Western-trained medical personnel and scientists versed in the time-honoured "scientific method" of clinical  investigation,  work hand-in-hand with traditional health practitioners,  whose medicines are the only ones used to treat patients, many of whom have experienced dramatic changes for the better in their clinical conditions. On August 30, a high-powered WHO delegation, led by the Organization’s Regional Director for Africa, Dr Ebrahim M. Samba, visited  the health facility  and was  pleasantly  surprised  at  the successes so far achieved in assuring a better quality of life for patients there. In the absence of a cure for their medical condition, and with no one to look after  them, most of the patients had been brought to the centre for terminal care  to, as it were,  die a  dignifying death at the hands of caring care givers. However, the medical team at  the centre told Dr Samba of appreciable progress being made in improving the quality of life of some of the patients. They confirmed, for example, that  blood  tests to  monitor  the level of  immunity (CD4 and CD8 counts) of the patients, all of whom are  being treated exclusively with traditional medicines, had shown a marked increase in blood cell counts. Similarly, they said,  other laboratory investigations  conducted on the patients, such as viral load tests,  also showed a significant decrease in viral load. They also  reported a dramatic improvement in the patients’ clinical condition. The medical team further explained:   "We  have patients  gaining  up to 20 kilogrammes  within eight   months of  being  treated  with these locally-produced  medicines". The question that  arises, therefore,  is: how do the modern and the traditional systems of medicine co-exist at this centre ? In what may be described as a classical example of the integration of traditional medicine into  a modern health system, the government constituted a team comprising scientists at the centre, Health Ministry officials and the Burkinabe Association of Traditional Health Practitioners, among others, to develop a protocol for the management  of  patients. The agreed protocol provides for, among other things,  standard scientific procedures such as the conduct  of liver and kidney toxicity tests on  patients,   as well as their categorization according to the classification recommended by the Centers for Disease Control based in Atlanta, in the United States of America. Some of  the objectives of the  protocol include: the selection of traditional health practitioners with experience in the treatment of HIV/AIDS; offering such practitioners  a  framework  for  the better management of patients; evaluating the efficacy of traditional medicines in the dosage regimens used for the treatment of HIV/AIDS; optimizing the efficacy of traditional medicines which have shown significant results in terms of biological indicators,  and in the clinical conditions of  patients;  and the standardization,  local production and assurance of quality control of medicines which have been shown to be efficacious. Impressed by what he saw at the centre, Dr Samba remarked: "What we have seen in Burkina Faso is positive proof and conclusive evidence that there  are positive aspects in African traditional medicines. WHO will provide technical assistance to this  health facility in Burkina Faso, and to   similar ones  elsewhere in the Region,  with a view to ensuring the integration  into health systems of traditional medicine and practices for which evidence of safety, efficacy and quality is available, and the generation of such evidence  where it is lacking." Reiterating the point made by Dr Samba, the  Regional Adviser on Traditional Medicine at the WHO Regional Office for Africa, Dr. O.M.J  Kasilo, said  that while  80 per cent of the people  in the African Region used traditional medicines,  the need existed to ensure that such medicines were validated for safety, efficacy and quality. Thereafter, mass production should be undertaken to ensure  their wide availability for popular use. She  also listed  other weakness which must be urgently addressed. These include,  inadequate polices; insufficient evidence on safety and efficacy; a lack of research on knowledge,   attitudes, practices and behaviours;  a lack of standardization of dosage regimens;   mutual distrust   between Western-trained and traditional health practitioners;  poor documentation, and the  absence of an intellectual property rights framework to protect the rights of local knowledge of holders, particularly  traditional  health  practitioners. Experts say that despite the frequent call by governments and international agencies and donors  for a "recognition" of traditional medicine, a  lack of serious commitment had constituted a key impediment to building partnerships;  to identifying effective indigenous approaches for  the prevention and management  of HIV/AIDS,  and for   the treatment of such conditions as diabetes, sickle cell anaemia  and hypertension, for which local remedies are known to be available. Dr Samba hoped that other countries will follow the example of Burkina Faso and other Member States  making similar efforts;  and that international  agencies and donors will provide the necessary support. Countries in the Region will not only strengthen and develop traditional  medicine, but will also improve partnerships between modern and traditional systems of medicine so as to enhance the integration of traditional medicine into national health systems for the benefit of the their peoples. For  further information, please  contact Dr R.  Chatora, Director Division of Health Systems and  Services Development  or Dr   Kasilo, Regional Adviser on Traditional Medicine  WHO Regional Office for Africa, P.O Box BE 773, Belvedere   Harare,   Zimbabwe. Tel: 1(407 )733  9351; 229;  1(407 )733 9354;    Fax: 263 4  700724 All  AFRO  Press Releases can be found at  the AFRO Home Page     – To submit a posting, send to this address – For anonymous postings, add the word "anon" to the subject line – To join or leave this forum, add the word join or leave to the subject line – Browse previous postings or post new messages at:   http://www.hivnet.ch:8000/africa/zambia – Reproduction welcomed, provided source and forum email address is quoted – The forum is supported and managed by the Fondation du Present (FdP) The views expressed in this forum do not necessarily reflect those of FdP, unless otherwise stated

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